Cope

Am I the only one enjoying Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds as they come out then? 🙃
- You're not. Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are very popular. They're fantastic shows. The ones people don't really like currently are Picard and Discovery.
  
  Fair enough! Those are the ones I have heard pretty much nothing about except in jabs about them. Thanks!
  
  It's like when they made Picard and discovery they couldn't decide what kind of show they wanted to make. Then someone was like "hey, what if we made star trek?" and strange new worlds was born
- Nope. Not at all. I can't wait for more.
  Discovery ... I still can't believe what they did to the Klingons and I have other issues but... goddamnit that show won me over in spite of itself. Will start season 3 in a while. And I liked the first two seasons of Picard I don't care what anyone says.
  I might be alone in saying all that, idk lol
  
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  I enjoyed the first two seasons of Picard more than the third. It takes all sorts, I guess.
- Lower Decks is the best Trek since Ent went off the air, IMO. I didn’t care for Disco, largely. Picard was more action than I was in for at first. I’m really enjoying SNW, though.
  
  Lower Decks is awesome. The only thing I didn't like about Picard is that romulans and vulkans need to wear nametags if they are both going to wear federation uniforms.
- I haven't watched Lower Decks yet, the SNW cross-over episode was fun but I found the characters from LD a bit annoying. SNW is great though, it's like classic trek with higher production values.
  I really tried with Discovery but stopped around season 2 or 3 (around the time they took it off Netflix), it seemed to struggle with itself a lot. Maybe I need to give it another try, I like the idea of the jump to the future.
  Picard, it was cosy to be back with the old characters but the writing was pretty poor.
  
  The LD characters seemed annoying because they were cartoonish, on account of them being cartoons. They played it up to be how people act in the future. But it doesn't feel out of place in the actual cartoon. Imho.
- I'm completely enjoying both!
- and Prodigy!

Yeah, but those J.J. Abrams movies were still terrible. Star Trek made by someone who doesn't like Star Trek. No.
- Star Trek directed by someone who doesn't like Star Trek. There were a lot of people on those movies who really loved Star Trek and it showed through. They're not the best, that's for sure, but I still like them for what they are. However I will say that Beyond is definitely my favorite. Might have something to do with JJ not directing it at all and it feeling like an interesting mix of a TOS episode and Kelvin timeline action/adventure.
  Also Idris Elba.
  
  I think Beyond was my least favorite of the newer ones personally, but I'd still put it above the last time I watched Motion Picture so it seems silly to me to trash those while elevating all the old ones.
  Star Trek is a universe of things between campy and serious. It's possible enjoy them all, or ignore the ones to don't.
- Did the same to star wars. He must hate sci fi because he's ruined every sci fi show/movie he's been involved in.
  
  tbh I think JJ is just not a good director and way too overhyped

Stamets, it's not like you to let the trolls get to you. I noticed yesterday but didn't feel like you'd appreciate that from a near stranger but it's even worse today.
You good, friend?
(Addendum for any reader; I know that culturally, pet names are seen as insulting in other parts of the world, but in my line of work and my part of the country, I had to delete like 10 "sugar," "honey," "darlin" and "love"s. Please keep in mind that it's meant well if you see someone like me slip up in the future.)
- No. Honestly, I'm not but it is whatever. Think I'm gonna take a break from Lemmy for a couple days.
  Have talked about how I lost my best friend a couple weeks ago over on Mastodon. Before finding that place, he was the only other person in my life who was a Trek fan and who liked Discovery. Moreover, he was positive. He had opinions of stuff he didn't like but he focused on the positive. We both liked each other for that reason. In a world with so much negativity and hatred and bitterness, it was nice to be able to enjoy something together. However we both did shy away a lot from the Trek communities because of the often toxicity that brews against newer Treks. If we were online and encountered it, we'd go to one another. Talk about how silly other people were. How they claimed to be huge fans of Star Trek but often neglected the lessons of the show and wanted to be angry all the time. Couldn't enjoy things for what they were and they certainly couldn't let other people enjoy them.
  He's dead now and can't say or do anything. They can. They're still around.
  I'm finding it really hard to deal with a lot of people online without him. So much negativity and it's like the port that you'd shelter the storm in is suddenly gone. Just being tossed on the waves, drowning and being terrified and not having any light or anyone around.
  Yesterday was just... not a good day. Nothing specific. I was just having a rough day and acted like a fool. Then me and my idiot self decided to post this meme about NuTrek and for some stupid reason I hoped that it would be positive this one time. Just once.
  I'm tired of having rogue waves fling this vessel with reckless abandon.
  I'm tired of feeling hopeless.
  I'm tired of the reminders that he's gone.
  Tired of sitting here like a fucking idiot and crying over fucking internet comments because I'm too emotionally unstable to cope with anything. It's the internet. People are always going to fucking suck. I shouldn't have expected otherwise and I shouldn't have posted this thinking anything else would happen. Also certainly shouldn't have done it when my only crutch is gone.
  It's whatever. It's my fault. I'm just being stupid. Sorry for whining and i'll be back in a few days.
  
  Stamets, I'm so sorry. I hadn't heard. I've lost people under bad circumstances. It's not fair. The world should stop, everything should stop moving and everyone should stop what they're doing and acknowledge the depth of loss and the void left where they used to be. But it doesn't stop moving and that's not fucking right and it's not fucking fair.
  Please do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself. Just do what's next. Your only obligation in the world right now is to wake up and breathe. Everything else is bonus points. We'll be here whenever you're ready or even if you never want to talk to any of us again.
  I'm so sorry that a good person is gone.
  
  I'd just like to remind you that you're responsible for giving internet strangers like me uncontrollable laughs, warm fuzzy feelings, and a sense of community. Thank you for that. I'm sending my love and appreciation to you in hope that it helps you weather the storm in this difficult time 💙
  
  Take some time for you.
  I've lost a lot of people. A lot of friends. And you're right, the internet is full of angry people who just want to be angry, but moreover, it's chaotic and unpredictable. It sounds like you can use some extra grace, some extra protection, and some extra kindness. You would give it to anyone else in your position, so it's the least you can do for you.
  We haven't really met, but don't become a statistic. There's not many of us left who made it. Each time we lose one more, that means those of us left have that much more to work for, but what we work for becomes that much more precious.
  The world can handle itself for a couple days. Rest and regroup. Everything will still be there when you're ready for it (if you ever are!)
  
  We appreciate you Stamets. A god amongst people.
  
  You're not stupid. Losing a close friend is a really tough thing and not something you just shrug off.
  Sorry for your loss. Don't let internet assholes make you feel bad for having feelings.
  
  Sorry for your loss stamets. Fwiw, I actually like Discovery too, even if I disagree vehemently with the Klingon makeup design choices made
  
  It's fucking awful to lose a friend. I'm so sorry.
  I think you're right about taking a break from social media. It can get exhausting and depressing. So much toxicity, doom, negativity, etc. It can really drag a guy down. (I was going to skip it today as I've been in the dumps).
  FWIW I have enjoyed the hell out of Discovery. I haven't had a show hook me that much in a while. Not done binging yet, though. Some people really do like to rag on stuff. I think life is better when one focuses on the positive instead of always trying to pick shit apart. And it's better for others to let them enjoy what they enjoy.
  I'm sure any of us would be glad to give you "cover fire" anytime. I know I'm not alone in saying you've been a positive energy for Lemmy.
  Anyway...yeah, things will feel better in a few days. People out there care, k? Peace.
  
  You're right. I'm mostly a lurker and when I do want to say something it's more often than not sarcastic and shitty. What you say hits home and really makes me regret some of my Lemmy history. I'm sorry that life is hitting you so hard, the world is such a mess now and it really is hard to stay positive. But that's what Star Trek is supposed to be about. Sorry we've let you down. That's on us. Look after yourself my fellow trekie. Take my thanks for all that you do for the community. You're a Trekkie god among lurkers. Live long and prosper 🖖
  
  Damn, I'm only a stranger that's been seeing you around, but I've always appreciated what you post, and loss sucks.. indescribably bad. I hope things get better, and I wish you the best.
  I'd send a hug but idk if that's appropriate lol. Either way you deserve one.
  
  Losing a friend is so hard. It affected me in ways I never expected. Family is easier in some ways.
  The kind people are out there, but they're harder to see sometimes, especially on the internet. Hang in there, and be kind to yourself.
  
  Hugs mate.
  There are those of us out here who like Discovery. We just happen not to be vocal enough. Take care of yourself and be kind. I enjoy your presence.
  
  I struggle to find what to say, because I'm just some random schmuck on the internet. Plenty of people post vile comments, so I'm going to post a saccharine one, in honor of your friend.
  Others have said it already, but I'll say it again because why not: your voice online has been a pleasure.
  Grief is terrible, and I'm sorry you lost a loved one. I'm lucky enough to have a friend like the one you describe. We're a big part of each others' support system, and a lot of what we talk about winds up being Trek. I say that only to let you know that your grief will help me remember why I should cherish my friend, while we're both around. Maybe that doesn't do you any good, hopefully it doesn't come across as selfish/insensitive on my part (if so, you have my apology in advance), but maybe it's some consolation that you and your buddy are inspiring others who have never even met you. We all have an effect on people's lives, whether we know when it happens or not. Just being some kind of role model, even in a small way, will influence people for the better. That's my hope, anyway. So you and your buddy have clearly been doing this for a lot of us, here. I'm sure elsewhere. You don't owe any of us anything, but I know seeing your positivity makes me smile.
  
  Take some time bro ❤️
  
  I don't know you, but I hope things get better for you. I've been in that pit more times than I can count. Nothing I can say will pull you out. So, give yourself a big hug and take what time you need. Wishing you well.

And then when I asked advice from people in Hollywood—I knew a handful of people, not many in those days—and I said to them, "Look, I've been offered this, what should I do? I've got plays lined up in London, I'm finally beginning to get a reputation in the West End playing leading roles." And they told me now, this is a six-year contract, don't worry about it. You cannot revive an iconic show like Star Trek, it cannot happen, you will be lucky to make it halfway through the season before it's canceled.
– Sir Patrick Stewart, on his decision to accept the role of Captain Picard
- Let me see if I can explain it to you: Nerds don't have a problem with women; they have a problem with change. I'll give you an example: Nerds are upset at black stormtroopers in the new Star Wars movie. Do they have a problem with stormtroopers being black? No. They have a problem with you changing their definition of a stormtrooper. I'll be a little clearer: If the first time you introduce oatmeal to a nerd it has maple syrup in it, it better have maple syrup every fucking time, or it's not oatmeal.
  – Larry Wilmore, on the closed-mindedness of sci-fi fans.
  
  I take issue with the idea that being a nerd is the problem. Some people are just assholes, nerdy or not.
  
  Oh my god that is the perfect explanation of the (often unintentionally / incidentally) bigoted opinions I hear around.

As a kid I remember hating TNG when it first came out because it was so different from TOS. I still struggle to watch Discovery (too dark) and JJ Abram’s trek (lens flares) but I am sure I will eventually give them another rewatch.
- I mean, there's a lot not to like in Discovery.
  
  Yeah.
  During the Klingon scenes, I just want someone to rush down the corridor with silly string and water balloons filled with neon shades of paint.
  I get it, their Klingon society is feudal, and on the brink of even more war. But they could still try letting some natural light in. If nothing else, their plants will live longer.
  Oh gosh, I just got the joke in The Orville about the Klingon-equivalent race being extremely light sensitive. I don't know how I missed that before.
  
  And there's plenty to like as well. But once again, thanks for looking at this posts description about positivity and flagrantly ignore it to give throwaway negative comments. You did the same thing over on another post earlier of someone saying they like Discovery. I'm so tired of this hatefilled focus on Discovery. So many people here are able to share their opinions about not liking Discovery respectfully and without randomly throwing it in everyones faces. Why do people like you have to always double down and drill in that hatred everytime it's even mentioned? You're just... exhausting.

I've had this theory running around in my head about followups to any series. Every person has a slightly different take on what their favorite part of the show is. For OG Star Trek, maybe you liked the banter between Spock and McCoy. Maybe you liked Kirk's swagger. Maybe you thought Scotty was hot.
If a new production comes along years later and doesn't reproduce the specific elements you like, then you will hate it. The producers might have been ultrafans of the original with good writing chops, a solid cast, and high production values, but if it doesn't have those specific elements for you, then you'll hate it.
Those elements are different for everyone, though. The list of possible elements can be very long, and no new production can possibly check off even a significant fraction of that list. Therefore, any new production is bound to have a long line of haters regardless of its quality on its own merits.
Was Star Trek supposed to be about Kirk, Spock, and McCoy on a ship strutting around the galaxy? TNG changed that. Is it at least supposed to be about strutting around the galaxy? DS9 changed that. Should it at least be about interacting with the alien races we know? Voyager changed that. And so on.
JMS made a Star Trek pitch back in 2004. I like Babylon 5, but I don't think I would have liked his version of Star Trek. The outline focused on elements I didn't care about and just seemed meh to me in general.
This goes for any other long running series, of course.

Telling people to "cope" has never felt very chill or positive. I dunno. But, I'm super grateful for new trek, especially lower decks and snw!

Don't forget old was once new Trek and people didn't like it back then.
I've met people who watched The Original Series as teenagers in the 60s, loved it and never wanted to watch anything else again and say they will never watch any of the new stuff.
Personally I love it all ... warts and all.
There is just so much now and it's not easy to find the time to see it all.
My dream now is to see all of DS9 from beginning to end. I've only ever seen a handful of episodes in random order never from beginning to end.
- DS9 is my absolute Favorite Star Trek Show
  
  I didn't understand or care for it when it first came out but now it is one of my favorites. I love the characters, Kai Winn warts and all :⁠-⁠)

My pet peeve is when people call (Disco and onward) "NuTrek" because that term was created to mock the "NuMetal" Kelvinverse films for their shallowness.
Now it's mostly used by people who complain about "wokeness" or "forced" diversity or what have you.
- Send the folks complaining about wokeness in "NuTrek" over to my house and we'll watch the episode of TOS where the aliens hated each other because "they're black on the right side."
  
  Will you let that be your final battleground?
- He's the one who likes all our pretty songs.
- [This comment has been deleted by an automated system]
  
  It also ruined the reveal about Adira’s nonbinary identity for me. I saw she
  Look, I'm sorry that representation "ruined" a low-stakes interaction about preferred pronouns for you, but it would mean a lot if you could try a little harder.

So nutrek is an umbrella term for Discovery, Lower decks, SNW and Prodigy right? It's it common for people to hate all 4 with a passion? They're all sooooo different. I can get hating one, because they are all basically different genres.
I think people are afraid if they support one that they hate, then we'll get more of the same. So have a knee jerk reaction to be toxic when their hated show is discussed. The irony being that historically star trek is a show that seeks to show an example of interpersonal harmony. These people do want an outlet to discuss their grievances about the shows but mostly see that outlet when someone mentions the show because they love it.
If someone hates all 4, they must be pretty deep into some extreme ideology that somehow doesn't conform with all of Star Trek.
Maybe startrek.website needs a neutral zone that only allows constructive criticism but still provides an outlet for these feelings. 😅
Edit- I forgot Picard existed, whoops!
- NuTrek was coined to refer to the Kelvinverse films (in a pejorative way) for being edgy and shallow like "NuMetal", but the "anti woke" crowd ruined it just like everything else.
- You know, your question sparked a little realization for me - I like some of the newer series quite a bit more than some others; but I love that we're getting such a wide variety of directions and perspectives on the themes behind Star Trek!

Mediocre TV Star Trek >>>> No TV Star Trek
2005-2017 were the real dark years.

I remember people hating on voyager calling it "shitty nutrek" and now it is adored like TNG, TOS and DS9 are. Give it a few years and "nutrek" will be old trek and we will have a new set of trek series that "fans" will spit on.
- Well voyager did kinda suck, especially in the early seasons.
  
  I can't imagine what it's like to love a trek that kind of sucking in the early seasons >_>
- I was twelve when Voyager started and didn't really enjoy it. I don't recall my parents having a bad opinion of it and they watched it regularly. I don't really remember it getting hate, but with no internet that's not abnormal.

Meh. TOS was so bad it got cancelled halfway through its third season. Didn't even get to finish.
More seriously, with all the whining people do about DSC and whatever, it's obvious they haven't seen TAS or Enterprise. I mean, really. TAS was - except for Mudd and Tribbles - awful. But no, let's focus on whining instead of all enjoying Lower Decks together.
Which makes me wonder how many people have actually seen the TNG episode LD is based on? 🤷
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go have a transporter accident.
- PS. Repeated shitting in the transporter room is why Miles really left the Enterprise.

Stamets: "Say something positive about Discovery!"
Anson Mount as Pike. Which was such a good idea it spawned an actually decent show.
"Say something positive about Picard!"
It's over.
:)
- Not asking anyone to say anything positive about anything. I'm just asking people to be positive. Something that a lot of people seem to be utterly incapable of.
  
  Today is a beautiful day and I'm happy to have a Trek (discovery) that has hooked my kids the way TNG and DS9 hooked me!
- Picard Season 3 is dope.

TOS never reached the high level of The Cage
- Gene Roddenberry made The Cage and it's all just been going downhill since. :P
  
  Captain and first officer are both male? That has nothing to do with Gene's vision of a brighter future. But nutrek has this patriarchal agenda all over. I wish they would keep their politics out of my star trek.

I just could not handle the "spore drive" in discovery. SNW is great though!
- Ya, that is understandable. It's a hard sell even if the show has more to offer.

So true! I still remember when people heavily disliked DS9. I was a huge fan, but dare me saying it was perhaps my favourite Star Trek. Today there are more people open about liking DS9. (✿´꒳`)ﾉ

I gave discovery a chance. I ended up quitting around the third season.
It wasn't just that it was bad. It was how it was bad. 90s trek did an extremely good job at discussing important and relatable concepts through the lens of sci-fi. It also did a great job of introducing us to fairly whacky and diverse ideas that made space seem vast and unknowable.
Discovery seemed to abandon a lot of that. It's kinda there on the surface, but under further inspection it falls apart. The discussion of serious topics was extremely shallow to the point where it felt low effort. The entire world seems to revolve around what the main characters are doing, which makes the entire setting feel small. A lot of the justification for this was spending that time on better character development, but when I stopped watching every character except Saru felt sort of underdeveloped.
Not to mention it does things that made me feel like that writers either didn't know or didn't care about previous star trek TV shows. Those Klingons neither looked nor acted like Klingons. Most of the discovery crew don't act like Starfleet officers. I finally lost it at the Burn. I guess it's technically canon, but it really doesn't feel that way. We saw multiple different types of FTL methods in 90s trek, and we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project. Plus the idea of there being one element the entire galaxy uses for Warp travel, again, makes the entire setting feel extremely small.
Finally, I feel like Discovery was being reviewed by people who were more interested in propagating the culture war than watching Star Trek. I remember reading articles gushing about how Burnham was the first black captain. Or how Tilly breaks the mold because all other major female characters in Trek were more stereotypical women. Or how the negative reaction to Discovery was from bigoted fans too fragile to watch a show that doesn't mostly consist of cis straight white men.
The last part was the most infuriating. It's incredibly obvious they were toning down a lot of what I star trek to appeal to the mass market. Fine. I've watched a lot of mid sci-fi. I watched all three JJ Abrams Star Trek movies, the first two sequel star wars movies, Dark Matter before it got good, etc. However it's infuriating being attacked for it.
- we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project.
  Wow, what a significant development - which episode was that?
  
  I don't know the number off the top of my head.
  The plot revolves around a wargames scenario. There is for some reason an alien race that is really good at war strategies. There is an advisor from that race on the enterprise.
  The advisor is a massive dick. However he's also somewhat legit. He beats data at some strategy game.
  The enterprise is set to fight a decommissioned federation ship. Half the crew comes over there. It's led by Riker. Wesely is also over there. He snuck his dilithium science project aboard. He tells Riker about it. Riker is happy, because it's enough dilithium to give him like a second of warp. He thinks he can use it in a surprise attack.
  The science project itself isn't super complex. LaForge was mildly impressed when Wesely told him about it, in a way that made it feel like he's smart for his age. He started the entire project like two weeks ago.
  Anyway in the middle of this the ferengi show up. This is one of the times they aren't complete jokes. They start attacking Riker's ship because they think it's valuable or something. The enterprise can't easily stop them because they are carrying dummy rounds. Riker ends up using the Dilithium is some sort of bluff to beat the ferengis.
  The episode ends with Data and the alien strategist playing the game again. The strategist gets upset and rage quits. It's revealed that Data realized that last time he was playing to win, so this time he was playing to not lose. He basically got the alien into a stalemate.
  There are also a million other reasons why the Burn doesn't make that much sense. The Klingons use Trilithium. The Romulans used a contained singularity. In Voyager we saw a number of potential non-dilithium alternatives. One of them was a glorified slingshot.
  There's also just the thematic implications. Star Trek has always been portrayed as this big diverse galaxy. There are a ton of alien races running around doing weird things that we only grasp the surface of. There are even more alien races we'll never meet. There are races that have technology beyond our comprehension, and races that are effectively Gods.
  I think the writers handwaved the entire thing away so that the Burn technically doesn't break canon. Just like La'Rell winning the chancellorship is canon. However it feels almost antithetical to what we know about the setting.
- I think it's really nice how tng and ds9 fit so well together, they could be the same show
  
  They do fit well together, but they are very much not the same show. They are like two differently shaped puzzle pieces.
  Closer to the end TNG did get more character development, though. I wonder how much of that is thanks to Babylon 5. I remember the end of TNG, beginning of DS9, and B5 all being very close together.
- The older star trek also usually had one story in each episode, and just a little bit of an overarching plot, so much of the time of the episode was actually used to tell a story.
  Discovery adopted this soap-like storytelling, where there is one long story broken up into episodes. Each episode has something interesting at the start, then just a lot of filler, and when it finally starts to get interesting again the episode is over and they spoil half of the next episode with the "coming next" segment.
  So instead of making something people want to watch because its interesting, they just manipulate you to watch it because they string you along.
  Picard does the same, but at least they have some interesting content in the middle of an episode sometimes.
  
  Yeah I think their insistence on a low episode serial format is a huge part of the problem. DS9 is a great example of how narrative storytelling can work in Star Trek, but it only came after they did years of character development and world building.
  I think SNW S2 has done a good job taking a step back and just having individual episodes that let the setting and character grow. "Under the Cloak of War" was one of the best Trek episodes of all time.
- That bit about Burnham had me double-checking myself because I'm an affliate Trekkie at best but I remember a character named Sisko who was black and some kind of commanding officer. And I haven't even watched 20% of available Star Trek content.
  
  I don't know if you're joking but yes. Benjamin Sisco was a black captain. Janeway was a female captain. You also had other women and minority bridge officers acting in a variety of different ways.
  While some elements of the female characters were problematic, I'd argue every single female bridge officers was less of a stereotype than Tilly. I've seen some form of the "adorkable nerd who is written as a Mary Sue because she's clearly a stand in for one of the writers" archetype just about everywhere these days.
- we saw Wesely grow dilithium as part of a high school science project
  We also saw Wesley mention that the Klingons had joined the federation.
  Things change.

Do I not like the new content because it's new and weird...? 🤔
No. I still liked DS9 and Voyager when I had grew up with TNG. I still liked Enterprise (although with some caveats mostly due to specific nerd shit that changed). I love Lower Decks and Prodigy.
What I can't get into with Picard and Discovery (haven't tried SNW yet) is the format. I really just prefer episodic content to serialized stuff. Especially when the good parts come slowly. So many people who do like these shows admit they don't get good until the 2nd or 3rd season, and I just can't slog through the first season to get that far.
- SNW is probably what you want. There are some longer arcs, but for the most part, you can take things episode by episode.
  The streaming era is favoring shows with long arcs, though. Just the opposite of where we were in the 90s, where missing one episode of Babylon 5 meant you might not understand what's going on, and VCRs were clunky and hard to setup right.
- Discovery and Picard are just bad shows to me, especially Picard. It annoys me when people try to reduce criticism to just not liking something new. The Abrams movies and Discovery depart from previous iterations in some really important ways to the point that they don't feel like the same franchise anymore.
  Also really annoys me when people bring up some of the TNG movies to "prove" that old trek did some of the same annoying things, when those movies are also bad and widely criticized.
  I do like SNW though. Better than Enterprise and probably Voyager as well.
- admit they don't get good until the 2nd or 3rd season, and I just can't slog through the first season to get that far.
  That's also true of TNG, the first season is rough, and season 2 isn't great.
- X-Files when it started vs X-Files when it ended. I feel like the episodic/short story formats focus on the sci fi aspects or specific situations in a way I like more.
  
  Later X-Files kind of felt like what Lost would later become. Engaging, yes, but kind of an amorphous mess.

DISC, Picard, and the cartoons just aren't my vibe, but I am glad they exist for those that love the shows.
- That's the way to be!

I've reached season three of Discovery, in my effort to give it a second chance, and I'm liking it a lot more. I've heard the third season of Picard was good too, but I've not made it that far yet.
They both just took the TNG approach of not really hitting their stride until the third season. Stamets' meme is on point, as usual.
I am looking forward to what they do to sell me on this new Ezri Dax meets Wesley and Beverly Crusher character. I hope they learn from Beverly's ghost-related mistakes lol

I fuckin love Discovery and none of ya can shame me for that. All this new era of trek fun as hell and im here for it. The abrams movies got my kid into trek because you know what, they are fun!
I pulled away from the trek fandom back in the Voyager days. Because I love that damn show. And I got tired of hearing how much better it would be if Janeway smiled more. I love the TNG era but it had some problems. The Yar arc happend people.
Trek is trek and it's all fantastic. Folks who can't be happy to enjoy all the new trek we've gotten are welcome to go back to grumply watching that original star wars trilogy shit. I'll be over here with the capacity for joy rewatching all of trek now.
- I'm right there with ya. Discovery won me over big-time. I am going to start season 3 in a bit.
  I am re-watching Voyager at the same time. Kind of drifted from Trek around Voyager season 4 for reasons (nothing to do with trek itself). Yeah Voyager is a hell of a show. Lots of great episodes. It's great to see all the ones I missed and can't wait to see how they get back (no spoilers!!)
  I've now picked up DS9 again where I left off a couple years ago. Season 5. Looking forward to finding out what I missed back in the day.
  I'm back to Trek because of SNW. Seriously that show reminded me why I love Star Trek so much. I will likely rewatch it soon.
  
  Been hearing great things about SNW. I've kept that and Picard S3 back for now so I can do the whole trek run in the background while I dive into a new project at work. I'm almost done with S1 of TNG, gonna run that through Picard. Then jump back to ENT and catch up to SNW before jumping into late DSC. All 625hrs.
  Enjoy your DS9 and VOY rewatches those are fun!
- Respect.It's not for me, but I appreciate that other people can enjoy it, no shame in liking a thing, and no shame in not liking it either. People are allowed to have opinions.

Hard disagree, new star trek has had years to "settle in" and has shown almost no signs of improving on the things that make it poor quality - namely low effort pandering writing and a lack of respect for its audience. Alex Kurtzman and the executives are the problem, and they're not going anywhere soon.
- I miss how campy it used to be. I feel they finally nailed it with Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds, but Disco and Picard were rough. Picard S3 was a little more tolerable though.
  
  Camp is an intentionally over-the-top stylistic choice, it's a specific well defined style. It doesn't just mean "silly" or "cheesy". Star Trek isn't camp.
  Sorry to be that guy but it's one of my pet peeves.
  
  I did enjoy Picard S3, but that notably didn't involve Kurtzman.
- Oh, bless you.
  Being old enough to have Voyager and especially DS9 be my "nuTrek" and also never having let it go I can feel your nerdrage as a warm, fuzzy winter fire.
  Can I interest you in how DS9's focus on greed, war and moral compromise is a betrayal of the concepts behind Star Trek and if they wanted to make Babylon 5 they should have just made Babylon 5?
  
  I'm old enough for that too. I saw and enjoyed both DS9 and Babylon 5 when they came out! There are definitely issues with DS9, but it never treated the audience as stupid or took its material anything other than seriously. It was ambitious and very well written, especially the Cardassian characters.
  I get particularly frustrated at the "teen humour" focus of the new stuff, it's just not written with me in mind and that's fair enough but I don't think we should be comparing it to the old stuff and arguing it's the same level of quality because that's not accurate.
- All the exact same arguments that were made against TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT.
  But way to look at the description of my post and say "Nah, positivity? Fuck that."
  Thanks for that.
  
  Here's a controversial thought: The worst Trek is at the absolute worst kinda decent, and it only goes up from there.
  My Trek power rankings don't line up with most (Discovery is pretty great, DS9 is kind of annoying, all the Kelvin Treks are fun and the first one is pretty great), but even the parts I don't like I can watch and be chill about it.
  Picard is bordering that line, honestly, but I can't be actively mad at Patrick Stewart and I actually would have watched a cheaper, longer show about the La Sirena crew without the TNG baggage.
  
  You can reasonably disagree with a critical response to a TV show without it being a personal attack on your positivity or that of your post. What are you looking for here? An echo chamber makes for a boring discussion board.
  I think it's fair enough to expect writers to understand and respect the media they're working with, and I'd argue that the writing in all those previous shows was leagues more intelligent and considered than the stuff on Kurtzman shows. I get very frustrated at how what was a show about professional and considered officers dealing with clever sci fi scenarios is turned into an action slog "fuck yeah science" show. It's not smart or interesting like that.
  EDIT: noticed your post above about the difficulties you're going through. We can disagree about a telly show and still respect each other, I don't think discussion spaces like this might be healthy if you're struggling with positivity. It's totally okay to like the new trek shows and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be positive.

I think from Season 3 to mid-season 5 and then late season 7 of TNG, most of DS9, and a couple seasons of Voyager, this isn't true. I think people knew at the time we had genuinely good Trek on the air.
- The OP’s point is that there were old fans gatekeeping and downtalking ‘NuTrek’ pretty much since fan organizations took out full page newspaper ads in the US trying to stop TAS from being aired.
  I was going to Star Trek cons in 1990. No matter how objectively great season 3 of TNG was, many TOS diehards were still campaigning against it.
  Longstanding TOS fans could still be pretty toxic at that point to new TNG fans in person too. The guests at cons were still largely TOS cast. It was hard even to get a TNG t-shirt then.
  Fast forward to 1993 and TNG cosplay was everywhere, the guests and panels were TNG and DS9 was the exciting new thing.
- No, no they didn't. Run through the alt.startrek Usenet archive throughout the '90s and you'll find plenty of bitching about every series.
- False premise, for sure. But the debate about what's good or not is eternal.

Pre-beard Riker Trek vs Post-beard Riker Trek.
I also remember when Voyager was just shit on by most people I'd run into online.

Couldn't get into the Lower Decks because I am thoroughly tired of adult swim style of humour. But hey, people seem to like it and all power to them.
Don't really know what else is going on with Star Trek nowadays. Anything worth checking out?
- It may have a lot of the stylings of adult swim, but I think that lower decks is far more focused. Obviously it all comes down to taste, but you should really give it another go and definitely try strange new worlds. Strange new worlds is classic trek done so well.
  
  Well, I watched first few episodes before forming that opinion, I think it's just the usual "cynicism pushed to grotesque" thing many adult-oriented shows do that puts me off. But it's been a while and I don't really remember it well so I suppose another chance wouldn't hurt.
  And thanks, I'll look into Strange New Worlds then.

I have enjoyed all of the recent Trek I've seen (Kelvin and Picard S1/S2 very much included). I'm really looking forward to watching Discovery when I can.
Media that has a different style is most enjoyable, I do not want to see the same style all the time, and seeing a different angle can be a breath of fresh air even if it is not to my taste.

Disco was hot garbage except for that one episode where they ran out of budget and told a decent groundhog day story. Pike carried me through the second season though. And the only interesting character was the spidey-sense alien dude. Didn't bother with season 3.
Picard. Well... I only lasted ten minutes into the first episode. Noped out when the motorbike helmet Romulan ninja killed the roommate with a knife. Guess they couldn't afford stun mode on a phaser or something.
Strange New Worlds is great. I'd rank it better than Voyager but not quite original series quality. Not yet anyway. And when Jack Quaid popped out the other side of the portal, that's when I thought I'd give Lower Decks a chance.
- Just watch the last season of Picard. Forget the other two seasons and pretend they don't exist. You don't need them, the final seasons stands on it's own.

It's true tho - all of society became total narcissistic sociopaths inside of the last 10 years or so. Wild shit how bad people are.

Don't criticize the crappy thing. I love, praise it, please"
Yeah, Today is a good day to die...
- Yesterday the thing you love was the crappy new thing and lots of vocal assholes hated it.
  Today you can choose to be the vocal asshole or just enjoy the thing you enjoy, no false praise needed.
  Tomorrow the crappy new thing will be fondly remembered and the vocal assholes of today will seem foolish and, in part, pretend they never hated today's thing.
  This is true across various properties. The fact that you think "we don't want to hear your constant whining" equates to "you have to praise the thing I like even if you don't like it" really says something.

Enjoy your lens flares and way too dark ship corridors

I mean you’re not wrong, but discovery is quite objectively garbage. It lacks good writing, good characters and anything that makes it a Star Trek other than using the IP. No philosophy, no exploration, no character arcs. Jason Isaacs is pretty much the only redeeming quality.
Unlike tng, I don’t expect discovery to be a fan loved classic any time in the next century.
Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school
- It's DSC. Not STD. Calling it STD has never made sense and is just a flagrant insult to the show. No other shows acronym starts with ST. Stop being so disrespectful. You can share your opinion without mocking stuff, especially given the description.
  No it is not objectively garbage, that is your opinion.
  "Please be chill and positive." "No."
  
  Sorry for having come off that way, I’m just a regular guy that doesn’t really like the show for the reasons I said.
  STD is Star Trek discovery and I never meant anything with it, didn’t know it was insulting. Don’t know how it “doesn’t make sense”, it’s literally the acronym of the series.
  But eh.
- Edit: changed “STD” to “discovery” as apparently we’re in middle school
  Buddy, considering how absolutely childish the moniker "STD" has always been, you've got no ground to whine here.
  Secondly, at least in middle school, children are taught the meaning of the word, "objectively."
  
  May be that way for a native English speaker I guess. I have never used it or seen it used as a moniker.
- This was uncalled for, and a quick look through your comment history indicates that you're either a person who thrives on taking an opposing viewpoint for the sake of being an oppositional pain, or a troll. I'm going to go with the latter.
  Dissonant discourse has value but you're intentionally inflammatory so from me, to you, kindly fuck right off. Try and learn something from this. I will engage you no further.
  
  Guy writes respectful and reasonable personal opinion on discussion board - downvoted. Guy swears at him and tells him he's a troll, upvoted.
  We really are Reddit 2.0.
  
  Or maybe I just have different opinions from you on multiple things and you just told a regular guy like you to fuck off because of that. But ok, feel free to disengage.