2w ago

Ontario city pauses speed cameras after 32K tickets handed out in 3 weeks

Ontario city pauses speed cameras after 32K tickets handed out in 3 weeks | Globalnews.ca

After more than 32,000 speeding tickets were handed out in just three weeks by new automated speed enforcement cameras in community safety zones, council in the City of Vaughan decided to pause the program.

Mayor Steven Del Duca put forward the motion last week to pause the tickets until September, when council is due to receive a report from staff on ways the city can create more effective signage about the presence of cameras.

69 comments

The real reason is the local politicians and their families started getting tickets too, and they're not happy. So the program has been put on pause.
- Ding Ding Ding.
  If they had given council members a device to shut off the cameras for themselves and rich donors then they wouldn't have shut it down.
  Maybe they should consider changing the speed limits a bit.
  
  The solution is better road-way design and classifications.
  Changing a speed limit sign on a roadway does not change the roadways "designed" or "perceived" speed limit.
  When changing signage, the roadway also need to change.
  Example, you can't increase the signed speed limit to 100 kph on a residential street without first a complete redesign of said street into a hwy. This is done by removing driveways, speedbumps, crosswalks, stop signs, and roundabouts. Without this redesign of the roadway this residential street would not make a really good hwy. The exact reverse is true. A hwy does not make a good residential street.
  
  Maybe they should consider changing the speed limits a bit.
  Or, hear me out, people could make the needle on their dash point at the same number as the one printed on the giant white signs all over.
Design the roads so that they are unpleasant to use above the speed you are trying to achieve. This method has had great success in the Netherlands.
- But then we can't just cut and paste the same lane design regardless if it is a school zone or a freeway.
  
  Last year, I think it was on the War on Cars podcast, their guest was a disillusioned traffic engineer that called his entire field "a fraud discipline." Like they put absolutely no critical thought into their designs as long as they are built to the exacting code.
  Edit: Found it, it was an episode from a few years ago.
  I was getting it mixed up with this other episode.
- Do these designs have any impact on emergency vehicles? Or do they cost more to put in than a regular road? Do they make driving less efficient and cause more emissions? Can they be ignored like lights or stop signs?
  I feel like speed cameras might be a better solution than speed bumps or other road barriers. Penalize the bad drivers up to and including taking away their driver's license if they can't comply with the rules, allow emergency vehicles to somewhat the need to do, and collect some revenue to offset the cost of enforcement of safety.
  Traffic sign/signal camera are a good idea too. If you can't/won't follow the rules of the road, I think you should pay fines and eventually have your license removed. Cameras are a far more effective way to do that than officers.
Over the summer months, when the cameras snap a pic of a speeder they will receive a warning in the mail rather than a fine. The city says it hopes the strategy will reduce driving speeds through awareness rather than punitive measures.
This is an intelligent and measured move. Make citizens aware that enforcement exists. Then, after making them aware that they're being monitored, turn on fines. The goal is to reduce speeding drivers, not to collect revenue.
- The goal is to reduce speeding drivers, not to collect revenue.
  Then there's cities like Winnipeg where successive city halls have decided that speeding tickets are the bestest cash cow ever!
  
  That cash should go directly into the city to redesign these problems roadways created for cars into streets designed for people.
- It should be 1 warning then you get tickets. Right now speeders can keep getting as many warnings as they want and wait to hear on the news when the fines will be implemented.
  
  Most people I know get several 11-15km over tickets all at once a month after the infraction. They've already noticed or been told about the machine by the time they get the first ticket, and adjusted their driving.
  
  That's a better approach. Cheers.
- Or, fix the speed limit problem? If a lot of people are doing a certain limit through an area, clearly the limit is the problem... Cities keep lowering speed limits everywhere when traffic seems to struggle to reach limits in the first place. Not sure what exactly they're expecting to have happen.
  
  Pedestrain safety becomes a concern at higher speeds. Collisons become more intense and more deadly as speed increases. The drivers are the problem, not the speed limit.
  If the cars aren't able to reach the limit due to traffic, how did the cameras hand out so many speeding tickets?
  
  Not sure what exactly they’re expecting to have happen.
  Great opportunity to go inform yourself then :-)
council is due to receive a report from staff on ways the city can create more effective signage about the presence of cameras.
Are you fucking kidding me?
It's like pointing out to thieves where all the cameras in a bank are.
The speed limit sign is the only information drivers need. If they are going faster, it's a ticket.
These automated speed cameras seem to be working exactly as intended. The 32,000 speeders can go fuck right off.
- The idea of speed cameras is to get drivers to slow down. To have 30k tickets after their install shows that they're not doing the job of getting people to slow down.
  
  Its only been 3 weeks and we don't have much data on how many of them were repeat offenders. We need to give more time for peoples driving habits to adapt to the consequences.
  The cameras are much cheaper than cops are for the same level of enforcement and the revenue can be used to further invest in roadway safety like lane narrowing and traffic calming.
  The truth is, the speeding issue has been many years in the making as enforcement hasn't been able to keep up with the number of drivers and 15-20 over became normalized. We aren't going to reverse that trend in just 3 weeks.
  
  The idea of speed cameras is to get drivers to slow down.
  It's one strategy that works for some people. Speed bumps work for others. Narrow streets work for others. And so on.
  It's also one of the least expensive ways to deter speeding, recoup the costs of infrastructure, and enforce the law.
  To have 30k tickets after their install shows that they're not doing the job of getting people to slow down.
  They just installed them! It's not like the same people are getting 100 tickets. At least, I hope not. If they are, mandatory retest should be required to drive again.
- I don't get cameras except as a way to get fines money. If you wanted to actually slow traffic, you'd spend that infrastructure money on calming measures that work immediately and constantly. Cameras take effect weeks after the offence (in a small number of people) and only serves to make people watch for cameras instead of the traffic around them. Cameras have a very small area of effect and only for people that see them or know where they are.
  If the point is just to punish speeders, make money, and not fix the problem, then by all means, install a few cameras.
  
  The cost of a couple of cameras is significantly less investment and significantly less disruption than the needed infrastructure changes. We are talking 10s of thousands to operate the cameras versus millions to rehabilitate just 1 road. We need to fight for roads to be upgraded to safer standards when they are due for repaving.
  
  All I know know is that I only needed to get one speeding ticket for me to never speed again.
  And that was in a speed trap, not because I wanted to be an ass on the road. An 80km/h country road suddenly turned to 50km/h without a warning, and I was already slowing down...
  That was over 20 years ago, but I digress.
  If people are constantly getting tickets, they should have mandatory driving school and a retest. But still ticket them so their habit can pay for better infrastructure in the meantime 🤑
- I mean I think its fine if people "know" the places they have to slow down for the cameras, if those places pose a greater risk of damage/injury from speeding than others.
  Sometimes I see police cruisers on the side of the road flashing their lights on which seems like a similar principle: they aren't trying to catch anyone but they are trying to slow them down through the area and it's effective.
  
  I mean I think its fine if people "know" the places they have to slow down for the cameras
  What that does is cause people to slow down where the cameras are, then speed up where they aren't.
  If drivers assume that cameras are everywhere, watching and waiting to ticket them, maybe they'll just go the posted speed limit.
It’s a Skill issue, just don’t speed, it’s literally so easy. If you can’t control your speed just take the bus or a taxi!!
- It is also a infrastructure issue. When the lane of a 40km road is built exactly as a freeway lane and drivers have been allowed to creep the average speed to 15-20 over the limit, it can literally feel like you're the one doing wrong when doing the limit as most other cars fly past you.
  The psychological effects of lane size, other vehicle speeds, and overall roadway design needs to be considered if we actually want to make our streets safer.
  
  and drivers have been allowed to creep the average speed to 15-20 over the limit, it can literally feel like you’re the one doing wrong when doing the limit as most other cars fly past you.
  I agree. Other vehicles speed is a major factor in your comfort and safety when driving. Which is why this ticketing is soooo effective. Thousands of tickets, with 24/7 coverage, applied without needing a cop standing there and literally ticketing each one individually?
  I'd lay good money that those areas will see a drastic speed reduction within the next month or two, once drivers receive their fines.
- When 80 zones go down to 70 and 60 zones fuck that shit. New houses got built, the limit was 80 if people don't like living near an 80kmh road, don't buy that house... It was bad enough being forced to do 60-70 because people took ages to get up to the limit when it was 80. Now we're doing 50-60 because the same people struggle to get up to speed once again.
  How about everywhere that isn't a side street just becomes an 80 zone and we start aggressively ticketing distracted drivers, distracted pedestrians, and people who can't handle things like driving in the correct lane, and people who can't properly use a turn indicator? You know, the actual problems...
  
  Ticketing distracted pedestrians? What kinda garbage city do you wanna live in lmao
  Out of curiosity, what do you view as a well designed city that would be a good example of what you want to see more of
Sounds like they were working as intended. In France they have speed cameras on the highway that average your speed over a distance and mail speeders tickets too, should be everywhere. Silly to stop such a wildly successful public safety campaign, if anything it’s clear this is a real problem and the program should be expanded. Why is signage needed? Follow the rules and don’t get a ticket is already a very well publicized concept, don’t speed and the cameras aren’t a problem
Nah, I'm advocating for people using the currently designed system to not be a bunch of slow and distracted morons.
The topic of completely gutting current city Laputa and restructuring them to be designed for pedestrian traffic at the forefront would be ideal, but was not the topic being discussed.

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