Martials don't even get anything from a 5th level multiclass into another martial class
Martials don't even get anything from a 5th level multiclass into another martial class
Martials don't even get anything from a 5th level multiclass into another martial class
I'm curious as to how quickly BG3 rule changes will start making their way into tabletop house rules and 3rd party supplements.
My guess is pretty quickly, if my own group is any worthwhile measurement.
Yeah. Larian made some really good changes to D&D, then they added crit fails to skill checks
Crit fails on skill checks have been houseruled into the game for ages, this is not something cooked up by Larian
What changes have they made? I’d love to know as I’m always game to allow homebrew etc at my table (so long as I’ve read the material, everyone agrees, and we roll with it from the start of a campaign).
Off the top of my head:
Changes fall into two categories:
Under 1:
Under 2:
Numerous weapons and items have systems attached to them that create or consumes various "charges" to add additional effects
As an example, weapons and items with the "spark" ability builds Lightning Charges in the wielder when certain criteria are fulfilled.
If 5 Lightning Charges are built up, the next instance of damage done with an attack role inflicts an additional 1d8 Lightning Damage.
Does BG3 do anything with overlapping extra attack features?
Not that I'm aware of.
It sounds like an interesting change, though.
I'm pretty pressed for time, but it would be interesting to do some testing on this.
meanwhile in legally distinct dragon game: Hmm yes I will dip fighter for access to a lv 4 reaction strike on every single character i make.
Also in legally distinct dragon game: Watch in amazement as I use my staff/dagger/rapier as a shield!
Dont forget the dip in fighter in 5th that allows you to use action surge on a caster. So good its banned at the table I play at
Back in my day we got an extra attack at 6th, 11th, and 16th level, and each one was at a cumulative -5 penalty, AND WE LIKED IT!
I'm still living in those days.
Paths do not find this.
Yeah, without some third party/house rules, multiclassing casters is already bad for your casting, but then also harms your BAB even more than it normally is, whereas multiclassing full martials has few downsides.
TBF the only class that gets more than one extra attack is the fighter.
Now of course it would make sense to sum up the levels you have in classes that get multiattack, and if you have >=5, you get an extra attack. But since attack progression is far less regular than spell slot progression, getting something approaching regularity beyond that would be difficult.
Now if OneD&D wanted to boost martials and introduce some sort of a multiattack scaling across multiclassing, here is how that could work:
The table:
Warrior Level | Normal attack | Special attack | Signature Attack |
---|---|---|---|
0 | 1 | - | - |
3 | 2 | - | - |
6 | 1 | 1 | - |
9 | 2 | 1 | - |
12 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
15 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
18 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
So:
Of course this could be refined a bit further, e.g., instead of a generic "special attack" they could pick power attack (must be a strength-based attack), precise strike (must be a dexterity-based melee attack), or pinpoint shot (must be a dexterity-based ranged attack) and they could swap this one on level-ups too. But I think this should be a start.
TBF the only class that gets more than one extra attack is the fighter.
That's true, but other martial classes either get or already have features that increase the base damage of their attacks somehow, usually by or around 11th level, in order to roughly keep damage parity (granted, it's a stretch in actual play, but it's possible to see the workings - Barbarian has rage damage/reckless attack/brutal critical, monk has martial arts/fob/damage die increase to d8, Rogue has sneak attack, ranger has Favored Foe, paladin has smites, etc.)
The problem is, extra attack does not stack with itself, so a 5/5 martial has at least one dead level if both classes get it. That's not true of a 5/5 in two full spellcaster classes (excluding pact magic,) who in addition to getting higher circle spell slots from both classes, have access to 3rd level spells from each of those classes.
It bothers me a little because this was solved in 3.0 with BAB - you added the maximum bonus from each class, and you would get a number of attacks according to the multiples of 5.
Not going to lie, I'm already taking notes. I like that in general, if you make the right choices, it's easy to make even wizards feel a lot less squishy, which would make me feel a lot more comfortable not pulling punches in my game. One of my favorite changes so far is the wild shape recharge on short rest for druids.
It's gotten me thinking about how to fix some other broken classes again, like making Ranger not fucking suck, and fixing the MADness of Barbarian. Fight me IRL, having the Barb's unarmored defense dependent on dex instead of strength is dumb as hell when the barbarian is clearly a STR/CON class, that would be like having the Monk's unarmored defense being dependent on Constitution. "So, what, Barbarians should just deflect attacks by flexing extra hard?" Yes.
Didn't druid already get wildshape on a short rest? I do agree that barbarian Unarmored Defense is a bit lackluster though.
I get what they were thinking. Monk gets to add Wisdom because their awareness let's them dodge, so it should be roughly equivalent to let a barbarian add Constitution because their natural durability makes them harder to hurt. Dexterity being one of the main Ability Scores for monks throws this out the window though
Ummm... Barbarian Unarmored Defense is based off Con, not Dex. They just didn't take away the default Dex bonus to AC that every class in the game gets. They shrug off damage by having a high Con. Barbarians are pretty good as it is, if you let them completely dump Dex and give AC from Str, they would be broken AF... 18 AC at level 1 with a shield under point buy system, and immediate jump to 20 AC at level 4, with no reduction in damage output at all. Possible to be 20 AC at level 1 literally completely naked (no shield) with rolled stats, and 18 isn't even entirely unlikely...
The reason that it's broken (in a bad way) as Dex+Con compared to the Monk's Dex+Wis unarmored defense is that monks absolutely CAN get broken as fuck AC from Dex + Wis, especially as the game goes on. Kinda on a related note, in BG3 I re-specified Astarion as a thief/monk, gave him a few mid-tier magic items, and now he's my front-line tank with an AC of 21 at level 7. No sane Barbarian PC is going dex barb, so realistically the barbarian's unarmored defense is going to cap out at AC 15-16 minus shield (which, come on, what barbarian won't be rocking two handed weapons?). So, while the Monk gets unarmored defense based on both of its chief stats, Barbarian gets unarmored defense based on just one of its chief stats.
Having a barbarian with a broken AC to start with doesn't bother me too much, but then I also tend to not run gritty/from dark style games, and that's also bearing in mind that the martial classes don't really scale as well as the casters do after level five. Giving the barbarian a ludicrous AC to aspire to at high levels might help balance that out.
What could go wrong if a class with the most hp and that halves the incoming damage also had extreme AC naked?
They are supposed to be a tank.
That said, Barbs shouldn't have that high an AC since their rage requires them to either attack or get damage. So a high AC would force them to only attack or lose their rage.
I usually offer players with multiple instances of extra attack a +1 to their to hit, and Im considering offering +1 crit range as well. This is a real sticking point to me in 5e, the lack of viable build variety.
Im considering offering +1 crit range as well.
Champion fighters in shambles right now
I mean, their +1 would stack. Crit range expansion was a big part of the game in 3.x. That game had you crit confirmation, and 5e makes it easy to get advantage, but I literally do not care.
Champion is also a badly designed class, it could have had maneuvers for a teensy bit of complexity, but they needed a "newb" subclass, paving the way for conceptually elemental subclasses with no mechanical complexity at all (note that the wizard didn't get hit with any of this).
in dnd 5e
Can you elaborate? I really only have experience with 5e
Martial hybrids are fun and good in other systems. In D&D 3e, for example, its the complete opposite situation; martials can pick up cool tricks like dual wielding while progressing their accuracy and health, whereas casters lose a level of spell progression and gain a second track of spell progression thats about as strong as a lv 1 character
Just saying, the cantrip gets more powerful but you just get one. I would prefer smaller cantrips but more of them like eldritch blast. So more sword swing is decent
@Golett03 hot take: cantrips ruined spellcasting. Spells should take spell slots unless they are a ritual or granted by a magic item. If I could go back in time and make cantrips not a thing, I would
Hot take: cantrips are fun and give new players exciting stuff to do and there's absolutely nothing even remotely fun at all about keeping track of how many casts you have.
I think some very basic things, like prestidigitation, are fine. Basically magical effects that a child might do by accident but controlled through experience. Damaging spells? Probably not. Essentially, if it adds flavor to knowing how to manipulate magic, fine. If it grants power, it's probably not a good contrip.
@Cethin pretty much every centripetal worth taking either deals damage, give combat advantages, or has a very useful effect like Light.
Essentially my hot take is that even Prestidigitation and Light should be a 1st level spell. Especially Light.
Spellcaster doesn't get spell of higher level in this case, only spellslot. A martial still get the proficiency up.
Casters also get proficiency up, that depends on total character level.
And higher spell slot levels still increase the character's damage output and specific utility. Some spells - such as Cure Wounds or Hold Person - are pretty much designed to be upcast, and some others (e.g. Heat Metal) are unexpectedly great. Someone with Bard 3 / Sorcerer 4 might only have second level spells, but a level 4 Heat Metal vs. a heavily-armored target deals 4d8 per turn without a saving throw for up to 10 turns.
In the case of heat metal the better effect is the disadvantage it gives to the victim. 4d8 is not much. A lvl5 martial does this with a rusty one handed weapon, without a spell slot, two less levels, and I resource whatsoever.
And then most lvl4 spells are much more powerful or much more useful.
Multiclassing before lvl5 is usually a bad idea. You can twist the problem how you like, that's how the game is designed.
Take a paladin 4/fithter 3, and any smite will do much, much more than your heat metal. A champion 3/berzerker 4 (you must be really stupid to do that) will still do much, much more than your heat metal. And he will be able to do it as many time as you will.
You don't run out of attacks in a day, martials. Kindly fuck off. :P
This message brought to you by the "magic should be powerful" gang.
Cantrips. Which also get more powerful based on character level.
Magic should be powerful, yes, but non-magic users should be able to function.