Cheaper than student loans!
Cheaper than student loans!
Cheaper than student loans!
If anyone is curious, they will fire you if you fabricate this level of education. Lie on your resume? Sure. Totally fabricate education and experience you don't have? Fruad.
My unpopular opinion (and I'll eat the downvotes) is that CV fraudsters don't get prosecuted nearly enough.
It's not just faceless billionaire companies you're fucking over, it's the other candidates who actually put in the effort to become competent at the job you lied to get.
I'll never get my head around the popularity of the idea that lying on a CV doesn't make you a liar.
You're not wrong, but I'd want to see more prosecution of job posting lies at the same time. Employers frequently add impossible requirements so they can hire H1Bs instead.
Job candidates didn't start this war. Companies want ever more ludicrous requirements (so they'd have to interview fewer people), so the average CV expands to match it.
And while you may get caught with claiming to have a degree, you can certainly embellish the rest of it. Used an Excel spreadsheet? You're now a data analyst. Dabbled in Access? Congratulations, you're now an experienced database administrator.
And if you get found out and fired, so what? So did hundreds of people who did have all the qualifications and experience. You now have a bit more, so you know what not to do next time.
Take what you can from corporations, because they're certainly trying to take all they can from you.
What's the consequences of not lying on your resume? you can't get a good job.
What's the consequences of being caught lying on your resume? you lose your good job.
What's the consequences of not getting caught? You get paid to do the job that didn't require the degree to begin iwth.
The consequences are the same whether or not you do it. The benefits greatly outweigh the risks.
What's the consequences of being caught lying on your resume? you lose your good job.
I used to work as a trade union officer representing people at disciplinaries. I've represented several people over the years who were sacked for lying on their CVs.
Not only did they lose their job, but they'll get a "sacked for gross misconduct" reference from that employer making it much more difficult to get another job. Those in regulated roles also ended up with gross misconduct records with the regulator, making it essentially impossible to work in that field again.
So no, it's not a risk free game.
What’s the consequences of not lying on your resume?
You pass your background check.
Harvard and other major schools make it fairly easy to vet graduates with a call to the registrar's office. Most schools have electronic portals to handle the requests in bulk.
This is an extremely low bar for an HR department to pass.
And it shouldn't be too difficult to avoid getting caught. Most won't bother checking, but if they do, you can always pick some accredited university that went defunct some years ago. It might be impossible to check if even if they wanted to. Then avoid giving details about anything from your college days, and hope a coworker doesn't show up who actually went there.
You took a game theory course didn't you? Cause yup!
I mean, honestly, this shit won't let up until the companies that hire them are fined. Advertising for such a requirement should carry with it the obligation to check. Would also cut down on those companies that demand such but won't pay accordingly.
No one checks. No one questions.
Any Fortune 500 company is going to check, particularly if you're aiming for a job in upper management.
And if you're working a government contract, you're almost certainly going to get a background check for any kind of security clearance.
And if you're working a government contract, you're almost certainly going to get a background check for any kind of security clearance.
🥴
They dont, i work for one
Maybe yours doesn’t, but plenty do.
Source: have worked at multiple companies interviewing people who would have been promising candidates, but got bounced during the screening process.
Plenty of jobs outside of Fortune 500 garbage.
I'm pretty sure this is the opening plot to the TV show Community.
I thought you have a bachelor's from Columbia?
And now I have to get one from America. And it can't be an e-mail attachment.
Even if you don't agree with this guy, you have to admit his credentials are impressive!
Have you heard the story of Darth Brianna Wu the Wise?
She did that, except people found out later on.
Brianna Wu
Never known anything but I have seen the name. So I've skimmed her Wikipedia just now. So she was harassed during GamerGate. Is Pro-Israel and claims the left is letting down their Jewish allies. Had a few congressional bids.
Oh, I see her with something with Cenk and Rebellion PAC. Not gonna lie, I gave up on Cenk ages ago and it seems things haven't gotten much better for him (especially lately with him and Ana apparently attacking the left?).
I've probably skimmed too fast but what specifically are you referring to? I see she didn't get a full degree from the University of Mississippi.
Some companies do background checks.
some do, most don't.
It's true. I finished grad school well over a decade ago, not once has anyone verified my education. They haven't even requested transcripts.
This is true but it also varies with industry. In defence and parts of the government, potential new hires are likely to receive a full and extensive background check, including academic records and past employment. It's similar for certain areas such as finance and some executive positions, either because it's considered fraud or dishonesty which is considered to make people unsuitable (e.g. in banking) or because the company is trying to manage risks and they want to be sure that they know what skeletons someone has in the closet.
This sort of thing wouldn't get you very far in those industries, and it's certainly not unheard of for people to be fired even after successfully getting the job. A surprisingly large number of people have been walked from high-paying finance jobs because they lied on their application, even months or years after being hired.
I'm not sure if I want to work for a company that doesn't. That seems incompetent.
Incompetent management is the worst to work for. I can handle people who make bad decisons or assholes, but I can't stand assholes who make bad decisions. Which is probably why I hate myself.
Background checks can cover a variety of areas. The last 5 companies I've worked for have all done them. Education verification was not on any of them. They were mostly concerned about criminal records. A few of them did credit checks.
Career pro-tip: Lie on your resume!
It's why I'm stuck in a factory. I just don't have it in me to bullshit/lie. I have a friend who worked his way into his career by saying whatever he needed to say and he makes 3x my salary.
I wish I had no morals or anxiety....
The way I see it is that they're looking to exploit me for as much as they can get, so I have no obligation to treat them with any more respect than that. I don't lie, but I have no problem taking a single instance where I worked next to a couple newbies for an hour and gave them pointers and turning it into "trained and oversaw new hires to ensure proper workflow protocol" on my resume.
Aww
Hey silver lining though?
You’re not gonna get fired and be embarrassed in ten years then go broke and lose your property and be unhireable etc etc etc
There was a US story or few too - someone goes back and checks ancient claims, then it’s all bad
I make higher than the median salary working at a factory. I left a job that required a college degree and professional licence that payed less than what I do now. Higher education requirements doesn't always mean higher pay. You might just need to find a unionized factory. The lowest wage at my workplace is $25/hr (CAD). Local minimum wage is $17.20/hr and median wage is $21.83/hr.
I’ll be honest that’s what I’ve done. But they weren’t lies of stuff I can’t do. More like “oh I made this small coding project”, “I’ve replaced phone screens before”, “I know how to debug code”
Yeah; those are reasonable. Not overly-checkable stuff like the school you went to and degree you obtained.
But my MSc was fully funded and I got to spend a year in cheap accommodation with subsidised beer, free fibre internet, and local Counter-Strike opponents.
Lucky. I lived on about 30 quid a week because my parents were deemed rich. I never got any aid from them lmao
Things techbros imagine they've invented:
Wouldn't you fail the background check?
Any organization is going to ask for a transcript if they 'really' want someone with a degree. You don't even need a full background check.
I have never once been asked to provide a transcript. Literally never. I also don't know anybody who has been asked to verify qualifications.
I'm sure it happens but it's not the standard.
Can't you fake a transcript? Like if they aren't going to check then a fake authentic looking transcript should work right?
Is anyone gonna tell him that they just check after messaging people ?
We don't check. I don't really care as long as they can do the job. But believing they have a degree is useful for telling clients who specifically sometimes ask about the degrees of the people they'll be working with.
We also don't DM people trying to recruit people tho.
I swear being on linked in is like a dating app.
If you're a male in IT, the recruiters that DM you are always hot but likely bots. When you interact with them, they always want to steer you toward jobs that have nothing to do with what you want.
They blue ball you until you get through the interview and then ghost you.
believing they have a degree is useful for telling clients who specifically sometimes ask about the degrees of the people they’ll be working with
I used to work for a company that provided programming consultants for the US military and for defense contractors. The hourly rate we could be billed out at was entirely dependent on highest degree attained, so PhDs could be billed out at the highest rate, followed by Masters, then Bachelors of Science and then Bachelors of Art. It didn't even matter what field your PhD was in, so my company was chock-full of useless people with advanced degrees who got put onto every project and told to just stay home. The worst thing was when they insisted on showing up and doing something.
This could never go wrong
On my latest three jobs I’ve never been asked about proof for anything. But my CV is also not impressive at all. Harvard is sure to raise some questions, so be prepared to know every detail about this place and your story. Especially if you meet actual Harvard attendees at the company.
We had a university hire a professor here that taught for a few years before they figured out they lied about credentials - only because they had no idea what they were doing, so it's not an unreasonable strategy to throw as much shit against the wall as you can and see if any sticks.
My college had a professor of communications with a degree from a supposedly ancient (like, 13th century) Italian university. He only got exposed because we had a big ceremony for the newly-hired President of the college, with a procession that featured faculty and alumni walking in an order determined by the age of the oldest institution they were associated with. One of our alumni was a very famous author who was on the faculty at Harvard, and he was like "why am I not the first in line?" He looked up this comm prof's "university" which turned out to be basically a prep school that wasn't even close to being 700 years old. Comm prof was promptly fired, which was kind of a shame because he was actually a really good teacher.
As with most things, if you are competent, a degree doesn't really matter. The degree is just a shortcut, and even if it's checked it's no guarantee you are otherwise competent. You're expected to have picked up competency during the time you got your degree.
So this probably works if you are otherwise competent, but if you're not it's just going to lead to increased scrutiny (Because hey, you should know these things) and if someone does end up checking up on you it's a great way to get fired with cause. Depending on how tight knit your industry is that can still make things very hard for you.
And of course, once this becomes frequent enough, you'd be surprised how quickly checking will become the norm again.
i onced followed someone profile on linkein i was with in my las semester almost a decade ago, and he was totally bsing his lab experience, because he told me before hand he dint have much or any lab experience, then every semester i saw him adding 1 years to his resume, then after he added 2 years, he was eventually hired. yea you have to bs your way.
Please advise, my landlord won't accept LinkedIn DMs as rent payment.
fire him; hire a new landlord
He's talking about an MBA, not an actual degree.
I remember once borrowing a friend's MBA textbook to see what it was all about. I opened to a random page which turned out to be in a chapter on negotiating strategies. There was an offset bit of text that read "your skill at negotiating will affect the outcome of the negotiations."
This is the kind of out of the box thinking that the team needs right now. Unfortunately, you're fired.
What if I already have a master's but still can't find a job?
Have you considered a doctorate?
Do you think there's a correlation between those who process further up the academia tree; and those who enjoy masochism?
PHD doesnt equate to a easy job find either, its pretty difficult if not very hard to do. in my state school i had department head reviewing 30+ prof/adjunts candidates in that semester alone. when i was going to research talks, one of them said the DR(who had come to our uni to give research talk about a subject he was doing) had written 40+ PAPERS before a employer was interested in hiring them. then theres the issue with that too, the quality of papers are dismal and then the profession itself.
Message people in your field on LinkedIn who may have a possibility of hiring you. Applying for job postings does approximately nothing.
just add x amount of experience to your degree, they look more into the bullsshit experience you faked(but they also likely wont verify your experience, unless you are incompetent than they start to question your resume), and most of the time they dont question it. assuming your degree is one field they will scrutinize. had a friend with MS in the science gave up searching, i dint do it either with just a undergrad. just add like 1 year experience to see if anyone bites, if nobody bites in a month, add another year(i think 2 year is when you see offer starts to come in.
ALso some jobs may request LORs, fake them too.
they tend to stay away from cv/resume with 1 or less years of experience, also they use software to automatically screen out certain keywords.
JD!
I was a hiring manager in aerospace for decades. We for sure checked transcripts before a start date.
I also just don't get people who lie on their resumes. That would cause me so much anxiety. Even for things I have training or experience with, I always worry people are going to expect me to be more proficient than I am. I had I guy put that he was fluent in a computer language that I'm not sure he'd ever seen, so everyone was always frustrated with him and he eventually got laid off.
Dunning-Kruger perhaps. You sound like me. I have a master in thermodynamics and 20 years in the field of energetic materials, but I know that there are lots of stuff I don't know nearly enough about.
My partner's dad lied on his resume long ago and held that job for years before anyone checked.
The reason he lied was because he knew he could do the job because he had enormous experience (I'm not sure what it was something related to agriculture and he had grown up farming) but the job required a degree. He did the job well.
He is an argumentative person though and I guess he finally pissed off the wrong guy who finally looked into his background and got him fired.
This, I was also a hiring manager in sciencey fields. We also verified education, even with a robust job history. I share the same sentiment and could not embellish on my resume because it’s pretty hard to lie about technical expertise in science and engineering. Also, the labs I’ve worked in have very expensive instruments, not a good idea to ‘wing it’ with those things.
I think it's super dependent on the industry and you as a person.
I used to have a fake degree on my resume and I attribute a decent amount of my career success to that. But I am in IT where experience is a lot more important and there's a lot less risk than engineering haha.
But it was just some random bachelors degree from a community college in my home town. I would explain it away as "just some online BS program so I would have a degree on my resume" and that was really all the background checking anyone did. I'm also very charismatic, had a bunch of professional references, and a couple certs so that helps a ton
I don't have it on my resume anymore because I'm at a point in my career where it just frankly doesn't matter, but back when I was just a baby help desk tech it genuinely got me a couple incredible opportunities. I didn't feel bad because the hiring process is such nonsense and employers made candidates jump through so many hoops I just figured it was fair. They lie creatively explain benefits and pay, so we can lie creatively explain our history.
I had a 25-year career as a programmer. Not once did I ever have a company I worked for verify my academic or employment histories or even contact my references. I could have put down anything I wanted and it wouldn't have made the slightest difference - my continuing employment was based on my ability to actually do shit.
I'm now a school bus driver and they checked out everything. And of course threw in drug testing and a criminal background check for good measure.
I'm pretty sure people lie on resumes because you're more likely to actually get a response that way, rather than using whatever credentials you actually have.
DMs from who, though? Recruiting agencies? Those aren't job offers, those are people who want to doctor your resume even further and some it at companies going they'll get paid for it
How do you think staffing agencies work?
The DMs have been flowing in ... from scammers.
indian ones. im not asking for scientist level listings, but they kept sending it. i had to end up blocking the job sites after that.
As someone that works in academia, you'd be surprised how many academics never get their qualifications sighted for employment at a university. I've heard a few stories of renowned individuals admitting to fake degrees before retirement, suddenly rendering their highly cited papers ignored after 20 years of publication.
sighted
cited ?
Nope.
their highly cited papers
Papers are cited.
their qualifications sighted
Qualifications are to be physically seen.
If there is doubt or the qualification can't be physically shown, it's a small mission to follow up with the institution they are alleged to come from—often a fee attached and time involved.
The studies are just in a very public place
Dat's ow klevah are akkadumiks ar theez daiz.
I have an old friend who worked in advertising for decades in Montreal. I talked to him about career advice once and I remember him saying something like this.
He said he just jumped into a low entry level position as a young 20 year old in the 70s, worked like a dog in a bunch of positions and eventually became a high level manager. He had a small college degree and he said that in his first position, they were just looking for someone .. anyone .. and he got in. No one ever checked his background or education ... no one ever asked for documentation or anything. From that start, he just worked day in, day out and after about five years, he becomes a leading manager. After that point if anyone asked about his education, he pointed to his track record working for the company. 40 years later he retired with a wealthy pension.
That would be nice... If companies still promoted people beyond the levels of, "beginner peon" to "senior peon."
you have companies that actually hire people instead of commissioning them as freelancers?
Companies don’t promote peons to management, only managers in peon roles get promoted. Just because you’re the best button pusher doesn’t mean you can succeed leading the button pushers.
Counter-experience: I don't have a college degree, but I have ~25 years' experience in tech. I never submit anything in the "education" section of applications but typically haven't had a problem getting interviews - including with the big name co's. Admittedly, it's possible I'm getting dropped silently from some applications but the only people who actually ask about my education at this point are recruiters looking to populate their database fields.
The verification is the Harvard sweatshirt you wear to the interview.
Now I want to do a thing where during interviews I wear merch from a different university than the one on my CV, especially from locations it would be extremely improbable for me to go to university and during interviews aggressively hint I went to said university instead of the one I actually said I went to, without outright saying anything false.
Back when I was in college, the only time you’d wear your own school’s logo was when attending a sporting event. Otherwise, folks always wore some other school’s colors — I think the implication was that they had a significant other attending another university. An unspoken “Yea, I have a boy/girlfriend, but you’ve never met them; they go to a different school.”
I once had a coworker whose CV said she had a BSc from Oxford University.
Clearly neither she nor our hiring manager knew much about Oxford.
I've got a BSc from Cambridge.
Apparently the graduate still looking for it wheeeeyyyyy
If the education provider no longer exists can you just claim what ever you like?
Because genuinely the provider of the apprenticeship I have got busted for fraud and they collapsed incredibly quickly. Can I just make up the qualifications I got with them?
Totally. I was the Executive Vice President of Radio Shack, so you know you should take my advice.
I was on the Board there, before becoming the CIO of Circuit City!
You don't need to lie on your resume for it to stand out and be impressive.
First, stop listing "duties" and generalized things for the role. As somebody that's done a few hundred interviews, I quickly bin those resumes. I have a good understanding of what a related role's duties are that would make you qualified for a role I'm interviewing for.
Your goal in a resume is to show the hiring team of what you can provide to the team/company if you are brought on board.
What you should do is keep track of you work successes and KPIs and periodically update your resume with those successes and metrics for that role. Got a top performer review status, log it. Increased sales for the department by some % for the year, log it. Delivered a highly complex & valuable project, log it.
If you do the above, I can have a good understanding of what you're actually capable of and how you utilize the skills you have within a role.
Are you sure not including duties and what you actually did is recommended?
Like, "Software Engineer" could mean bloody anything if you don't specify what you actually did. You could have been mindlessly doing minor Jira tickets and running import tools, or you could be architecting entire pieces of enterprise software.
Listing your successes, metrics, and accomplishments will drive home your actual work duties and capabilities.
If you're listing the following, you've failed in writing a solid entry to tell me that you're a bugfix and data import wizard:
Instead, you could write entries like:
I'm not saying to lie or embellish either. I'm saying that you need to think about how you market your skills for sale as a service. If I'm looking for somebody with those skills, the latter two bullet points are going to stand out a far lot better than the former.
It seems to be the standard requirement in the USA, like having a resumé rather than a CV. I'd rather not, but it is standard, here.
I live in the USA. I use the process I've described on my resume. I've also just landed a new job and started within the last month. When sending out resumes on my latest job search I had a 90% response rate, all for jobs I'd actually like to work at. The job I accepted was after the recruiter that reviewed my resume reached out to me to tell me the role I applied for had been filled but that they had another role that I'd be a fit for in the process of being written and wanted to get the ball rolling so I could be at the front of the interview process for it.
I'd say it's "standard" because people were poorly trained on what to put on their resumes starting in high school and even college. I even used the "standard" before and struggled to land interviews early in my career. It wasn't until about 15 years ago that I did a deep dive into resume writing and job searching techniques that I completely overhauled my resume and started actually getting call-backs/emails and interviews that would eventually wind up in landing jobs that I actually wanted.
Just because something is "standard" doesn't mean it's what we should be doing, or is the right way. The job market has changed over the years and ATSs reviewing resumes meant that people had to figure out how to get past those systems 20 years ago. As LLMs have been added to ATSs it's only gotten harder to get past the initial gate with a resume drop.
A Kagi search for "resume accomplishments vs duties" will give you a plethora of sources discussing this from job seekers, HR professionals, recruiters, and even some university research.
So, what you're saying is people should lie about work successes instead of degrees? Got it. Will do.