Come on do something

reminder that the world did not enjoy it the last time Europeans were super powerful
- Yeah, they all hated each other and their internal beer hall brawl spilled out over the borders. It wasn’t that Europe was any kind of united force. Maybe it’s time. We’re fucked in the US, now.
  Though I gotta admit it’s ironic AF that the Allies set up Germany with a far better constitution/Grundgesezt and government framework than our own Constitution which ended up essentially frozen because politics have gotten so bad that opening it up would have probably destroyed whatever good remained in it thanks to talibangelicals and corporate money.
  
  I think they were talking about colonialism, not WW2
- Europe is the biggest provider of independence days !
  
  Well, not the EU after the UK left. Spain and France tried but they were up against WASPs and that's simply not a fair contest of evil.
- Not even most Europeans.
- Eh, power vacuums don't last. You're basically just asking for a Somalia situation where there's n small powers continuously at war.
- But Europeans loved it
- Hi Americans!
- Europe is not the Germans.
  This time you'll get the Vikings, the Romans, the Conquistadors, the Spartans and the people who ruled the world by the cunning use of flags all teamed together.
  
  The British imperialists genocided more people throughout their history than the Germans. Just that the Brits took their time with it. The French, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians, Dutch and Italians also have many million skeletons in their closet and the French massacred millions of people trying to gain independence after World War 2.
  If you go to any place in the world outside of Europe there is a good chance that Europeans committed a massacre there to steal land and resources at some point in the past few hundred years.
  
  Europe is not the Germans.
  The English ran laps around the Germans in terms of human attrocity for centuries.
  The French weren't far behind.

Power corrupts. No single country should be a global superpower
- That's fine, Europe is several countries.
- On the contrary, periods of imperial hegemony have been some of the more stable and peaceful episodes of human history. One of them is ending right now.
  
  Yeah. People like to complain about American warmongering, but the period between World Wars I and II was orders of magnitude more deadly.
  
  The stability isn't much consolation to the slaves who die under empires
- The only way to enforce that, is to be a global superpower

EU already absorbed Switzerland in this pic despite them not wanting it, so there's that.
- Undid Brexit too already
  
  No Iceland either 😔
- Switzerland is 100% dependent on the EU.
  
  That's not true.

The top US export is oil.
If you want to do something, wean yourself off oil. Big push for solar, wind, and anything else that doesn't rely on digging up bits of dinosaurs.
Electric vehicles, public transport, bikes, walking.
And as an added bonus, the world gets a little cleaner. Might be important, you know.
- > In 2023, renewable energy represented 24.5% of energy consumed in the EU, up from 23.0% in 2022.
  They're working on it a lot faster than (most of) the rest of the world!
  
  In 2022, renewable energy sources contributed 31% of the electricity used in Texas. Fucking Texas.
  Get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers.
- This is what I always have to bring up when people go "bUt cHInA!". So what? Energy independence is valuable and should be pushed for.

The almighty Nordic cock and balls
- Norway should really check a doctor
- Dang! Cannot unsee anymore
  
  I can't unsee Putin screaming at Poland at the balcans, seeing both goes together quite nicely

Why is the forsaken UK still on the map ?
- 'cause we know this relationship has its ups and downs but isn't over yet
  
  Right, like the UK is a sibling that you hated growing up, but as adults it's not so bad and you know you're going to be friends again once they go through their binge drinking phase.
- Not only EU beurocrats are slow to process informations 😖
- Data from the general population https://github.com/twosheds2/wiki-eugraph
  
  Still too close. The mistake of Brexit was taking such an important decision based on a slim majority, you need at least an absolute majority, 66%.
  
  Interesting. Are those poll results sampled amongst the general population, or something more specific like from the parliament ?
- Our island is full of idiots but I swear we can make this up to you
  
  The continent is full of idiots too. Their are no reasons for us to feel superior about this on this side of the pond.
  
  France, Germany and Italy are giving it a good go too. I think our position on Ukraine has made the UK a lot of friends in Europe. That and voting out the Tories.
- Switzerland and Liechtenstein are also not member states, and Estonia's islands are not shown.
  
  Scotland has islands on this map, but in a really weird way: all of the five biggest ones are missing, and I'm 95% sure that one of the two depicted is actually a peninsula that the map has chopped off from the mainland
  Alternatively we can just assume Norway took the islands back
  
  They bothered to remove the non-EU Balkan states and Norway, but filled up Switzerland. This map is just terrible.
- Waiting for the George Costanza move

Weird map. The non-Union Balkan states and Norway are cut out, but Switzerland is filled in.
- fuk switzerland, free riding mfers
  
  Some of you European federalists seem keen to annex and rule to ensure a full and strong federation.

Economically and culturally, Europe is already a superpower. Militarily it isn't, and maybe that's not a terrible thing. Politically, it just seems to have a bias for moving slowly and by consensus, although it responded quickly to COVID and the assault on Ukraine, so it can do what's needed?
- Militarily it isn’t
  Tell that to Libya, French colonies, etc.
  Europe still has more than enough military to continue murdering people with darker skin.

We have too many traitors like Orban in the EU. The work against us.

Unite, but first, launch Orban into space, one-way-ticket kind-of way.

Get this, there's already a thing called the European Union - almost like we're already pretty united! :)
I don't really think further unification is the goal here.
- We are not truly united, not yet. The shadow from the east seeks to divide us and corrupt us. Only together we can face it. So sharpen your weapons and train your body because before long we will have to defend our way of life.
  The Enemy is already trying to damage our morale. He wants to leave us divided, indecisive, feeble. If we show to be united and determined we will end this war before it comes to our door
- USA misunderstand that European State are nowhere similar to US states. If you expect Germany France and Poland to go federal and have common institution for security defense etc.. let me tell you it will not happen, we were at war 80 years ago and we're not even having the same language. Ain't no way do I'm trusting anybody else than France to represent and defend France

Being a superpower means making decisions. The EU has problems with that: EU's responses to anything are too slow and too weak. Deep concerns isn't a language of power.
- The inefficiency of democracy is not a flaw, it's a fundamental feature
  
  I would say it is more of a tradeoff. Being able to quickly make decisions is nice. But I rather have a strong and democratic parliament than a president as powerful as a medieval monarch.
  
  Double-edged sword, as it were.
- I recognise you're just expressing frustration towards current affairs – a frustration I often share, but:
  Decisions require a mandate and the reason the EU has problems making decisions about some things is that it wasn't designed to address them in the first place.
  It's simply a slightly over-grown trading union with occasional federalist aspirations.
  Responding to tariffs - fast and coordinated.
  Responding to external military threats - scattered and complicated.
  
  That's why the EU's response to defense was based on financial instruments.
  To become a "superpower" and/or make quick decisions regarding e.g. military threats, it would need to actually become a state-like entity and begin building several bureaucratic arms it currently lacks which doesn't usually happen overnight. Not to mention establishing actual policies.
  Before we get to that stage though, a consensus between member states needs to be formed and all manner of legal documents drafted. Centralising power means less independence for member states which is usually a hard sell. It would likely also require member states to alter their constitutions which could be an incredibly slow process even without resistance from all the respective governments. Not to mention the fact that a popular vote in all member states might be a good idea democracy-wise.
  I'm not saying necessarily it's something we shouldn't pursue and hey, under extraordinary circumstances even bureaucracy can move quickly but it is a huge deal and moving quickly could also mean skirting around established democratic principles. (Actually iirc European bureaucracy is generally quite efficient as is –contrary to popular belief)
  I guess I wrote this in the hopes of fighting disillusionment even though it's not the core message here. We'll do what we have to and I'm positive we'll get to wherever we need to be in order to survive and thrive in this century. It will require patience, nerve and active participation from all of us though.
  Last thing I want us to become is like the folks over in the States claiming it's all already over. (A minority, I hope)
  Sorry for the wall of text, I guess I had some stuff pent up.
  
  One thing I remember from the Brexit "debate" was that many viewed the prospect of the EU having an army as a terrible thing that couldn't be allowed.
  "It's the Germans wanting to re-militarize under a different flag"
  Fast-forward 6 years and Russia invaded Ukraine and the mood has certainly shifted on that one.
  "Come on Germany. Get those factories going."
- True.
  Maybe they need to appoint someone to be in charge, who can make decisions and really get things done.
  
  I like a democratic parliament more. Otherwise we may have a Trump in Europe. I don't want a singe person as powerful as a medieval monarch to decide over about half a billion people.
  
  Cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not
  
  Or just move their chair-rooted asses a little bit faster? Using modern XXI-century communication means would also be nice. Having a roadmap won't harm.

Europa is too pure and regulated to be hegemony.
Do you think the US became a superpower by being kind and egalitarian and taking it slow? Nah, they came out the gate swinging, uppercut to Hiroshima and a roundhouse to Nagasaki, and it only got worse from there. They watched the old European powers withering under the weight of colonialism and insurrection in Indochina and southeast Asia and said "I'll have a piece of that".
You don't become Hegemon by standardizing power grids and phasing out coal. You become Hegemon by selling your soul to the MIC, spinning up black site torture rooms in countries most people don't even know the names of, funnelling guns and drugs to everyone who will take them, and bringing a fucking bandolier of hand grenades to every knife fight.
- Maybe Europe doesn't need to be a hegemony. Maybe instead Europe should just be a self-reliant world power, capable of standing up for itself against other large powers like the US, China, and Russia.
  
  capable of standing up for itself against other large powers like the US, China, and Russia.
  To do that, it needs to consolidate power in some way, a way to compile all resources of united/allied countries and leverage them against other powers. IE: they would need to be hegemonic in the exercises of power necessary to maintain control.
  People are repulsed by the word "hegemony" because it's scary and often used to describe authoritarians, but we literally need to get to a single-world-government as soon as possible to secure our survival as a species. The problem is right now if we set that up, the cretins of the world would vote the very worst people to lead that world-government because the very worst people keep shoving propaganda up the asses of our most stupid people and we keep letting them.
- It has a lot more to do with humans being humans universally, everywhere you go, and people are as vulnerable to Putin's and other wealthy crime lord's tactics in Europe as they are in fucking Crimea or Venezuela, it's just that people broadly think themselves too immune to social messaging to ever vote against their own best interest.
  Such as dissolving the largest economic and social union Europe and maybe the world has ever seen just because enough people saw scary stories on TV about what would happen if they didn't vote for Brexit.
  A "world order" is literally the thing we need most to secure our future, and it's the one thing individual people are most scared of, because the people who want to retain power are doing everything they can, without limits, to preserve that power and sow fear in every dumbass out there with a TV or computer.

Sadly a lot of MEPs are in cahoots with Russia and hell bent on destroying the EU.
- Cahoots is a strong word. They're all ethnic nationalists who sympathize with the wave of anti-Muslim hysteria echoing through the continent.
  But when push comes to shove, they'll start shooting at one another over the border happily enough.
  
  At least for the Dutch alt-right party Forum voor Democratie there's definite proof that they get money from Russia
  
  or they just like money and power and ride the racism wave
  
  No, it isn't a strong word at all. They are literally being paid by Putin. They exploit racism and bigotry, right wing populism, in their campaigns, but they aren't necessarily doing that out of personal conviction.

It's hard to get them to agree on anything let alone actually coordinate real world actions together. You are going to be waiting a long time.

I must say that I am prepared to die to defend Europe. It is maybe one of the last causes truly worth fighting for
If even quarter of people feel like me then we cannot be beat, we cannot be defeated. We will meet there on the Vistula river to stand against the darkness
It will only be after my cold dead body that the orcs will destroy this beautiful land. The mountains, the fields, the cities, rivers and forests, the peaceful, good people.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
  
  A duty is more fitting word. We ought to protect things that are rare and precious. If everyone simply runs away before aggressor then everything is lost for certain. An orc won’t stop just because you go on your knees and hope they will have mercy. They are not people, they are orcs.
  I won’t judge those that won’t be there if the time comes because I understand them perfectly. However, if we all run there will be no one to stop the enemy from destroying our remarkable, precious Europe.
  If we just give it up without a fight then we would betray everything we believe in.
  This isn’t just about land and borders. It is fight for European values against the darkness of Russia. A struggle so our idea of the just, equal and diverse society prevails. We must protect this idea at all costs.
  Anyone who is enjoying the accepting queer community and tolerance of Europe should consider to be there if the time comes. This is what we will fight for and die for if needed.
  Not because some politician tells us to do it but because there is no other place in the world where people truly can be themselves with dignity and without fear. There is nowhere to run, this is the first and maybe the last place where you can be truly free.

The EU is mostly on a peninsula. The only direct threat right now comes from Russia, with maybe some sort of Ottoman Empire style Muslim Empire being a potential problem. Europe has enough coastline to easily trade in resources. As long as the US and China leave Europe alone, there is no real reason to even become a global superpower.
Seriously if Ukraine wins, then Europe is rich and secure for quite some time.
- Even if it doesn't formally unite (which it won't in the near future), a US-independant Europe would be a superpower by virtue of economic might.
  with maybe some sort of Ottoman Empire style Muslim Empire being a potential problem.
  Yeah, don't hold your breath on that one!
- Europe puts a ton of international shipping through three choke points. Gibraltar, Suez Canal, and the English Channel. The US Navy is more than capable of locking down all three. So would a Chinese Navy that's built more for blue water operations than they are now. Europe doesn't have the air or naval capacity to counter that.
  The options left are land routes and going north of England. And even going to the north of England wouldn't be safe for shipping.
  
  Europe would have more aircraft in the air and European navies are also rather more capable then you might believe. There are reasons the US does not train against European submarines.

We just have to through the Bell riots and WW3, but then it’s all tea. Earl gray. Hot. From thee
- WW3 is scheduled for later this decade

You have to use more sticks ...

Yo when tf did Switzerland join?
- Same year that UK rejoined lmao.

They're working on it

Only here to say that this picture REALLY makes the scandanavian countries look like a droopy dick n balls.

Thanks, but no, thanks.
Signed: Former colony
- Yeah OP is an extremely ignorant and privileged eurocentric (aka white-supremacist) viewpoint.

We're united in in-action, politically and economically!

Superpower is such a joke to call yourself. if russia is a superpower EU is superpower x100.
- Goku would still beat them tho.

It already is.

Anybody who knows the actual history and current reality of european imperialism will not want this at all.

When will humanity mature? I mean really?

It would quickly fall apart due to reactionaries and nationalism, Yugoslav wars except on a continental scale

Better yet, unite and form SCORPION CAT!!!

Yet it’s all the states fault in the US because some of those states voted for Trump. Could see this same meme with different continent and text.
- Not in this community though.

I want to be low key nationalistic but for EU if you know what I mean
I wouldn't defend borders of my country but for eu probably. I want eu to be a bright light in the darkness of the world. Brits like hobbits, Ukraine and Poland like Gondor and Rohan against the orcs. Finns will be the elves, germans are dworfs
Let us all be complete opposite of the orcs, free beautiful people so that we will prevail against this darkness. Stick to our principles the more barbaric Mordor gets because they are worth fighting for. They stand no chance against us together

Despite peoples view on the two parties in the USA, which has the same foreign policy. The Ukraine war was about the USA isolating Europe from Russia which is not in the interest of the working class. Now the US has achieved its military goals it plans on abandoning Europe and Ukraine and leave them the mess. This was always the plan. Trump or Biden. Forget the culture wars it is the class war we got to be concerned with. Fascist are the useful idiots of empire. All wars are bankers wars.
- You talk like this was some kind of well crafted plan by the powers that be. As opposed to the ravings of an overgrown toddler.
  
  Is this the ravings of a toddler or a plan?
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
- Brilliant analysis. Next you're telling me that Earth is flat and vaccines create autism.
- Russia is a capitalistic, fascist country. The Ukraine war is about Russia invading for Ukraine wanting closer ties to Europe.
  
  It's about Putin wanting to be Vladimir the Great and reforming the Russian Empire.
  He wants a legacy, and I think he'll get one. It just won't be the one he wants.
- Is that why the USA attacked first?
- If you're gonna bring up class interests, war in general (both defensive and offensive) is not in the working class interests, with geopolitical aspect being pretty much irrelevant.
  If the war is offensive, the proletariat are the ones dying on the battlefield to further their imperialist bourgeoisie ruler interests.
  If the war is defensive, the proletariat are the ones dying on the battlefield to protect the private property and the rule of their bourgeoisie rulers, and win or lose - the class relation will remain the same.