Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x08 "Under the Cloak of War"

Buffy
Mom
Once more with feeling

Stargate
Wormhole Xtreme
The tomb

But yeah had to go quite far back

Edit also how could I forget what seems an inspiration of this episode MASH

🎵 Through early morning fog I see

Visions of the things to be

The pains that are withheld for me

I realize and I can seeeeeee... 🎵

I understand your reaction.

For me, this is in many ways a less dark and cynical take than DS9 In the Pale Moonlight and certainly the Section 31 references.

What was critical here was the difference between the journey of individual traumatized officers who had been forced repeatedly to take actions in wartime that compromised their values, and brought out capabilities they never sought to own, vs Starfleet leadership taking cynical action. It’s also a direct outcome of Starfleet’s cynical actions in having M’Benga develop the serum and then use it.

Starfleet’s postwar directive, and Pike’s insistence on pressing it with his senior officers, created the immediate crisis.

However, we need to take account of the fact that it was the ambassador’s own repeated insistence on confronting, engaging and attempting to recruit M’Benga to assist in his mission that led to the break.

M’Benga seemed to be processing his trauma and managing it as well as he could. He wasn’t at the point of exposing the ambassador’s deceit although he appeared to have been contemplating it.

It was the ambassador’s decision to seek M’Benga out again, in his own safe space, his private office, and own refusal to take M’Benga’s rejection that seemed to take the contemplation to action.

The cover up by Chapel and M’Benga is serious, and in the case of M’Benga this is the second case of his hiding something of significance from his captain. He’s an understandable but grey character, and we will have to see where the show takes him.

In Chapel’s case, we have been shown that her bright effervescence hides much darker experiences. It’s now easier to imagine how she will evolves to the very restrained version of herself in TOS.

I feel this is a very authentic portrayal of the chronic legacy unaddressed of trauma in individuals, how a military service and society will need to move on after a society-wide war when its individuals are not yet ready to do so, and how disasterous the potential outcomes when the divide been societal and individual needs in healing are ignored.

It’s not the 24th century Starfleet we’re seeing where there has been a long period of peace and officers can be treated effectively for trauma before returning to duty and it locks in with chronic effects.

I agree that it does not show Pike’s leadership in a positive light, but I find it realistic. What it does show is the gulf between war veterans and those senior officers who, while veterans of other kinds of conflicts, were not involved.

Starfleet needs senior officers, without direct personal history, like Pike to lead the peace and move forward, just as the western allies needed to find a way with some German leaders and scientists after WW2. But not every individual at the front can withstand the stress of that direct engagement with a former enemy.

Starfleet’s order to force veterans into direct contact with a former enemy was psychologically unhealthy and unrealistic, but a value-focused officer like Pike would not have the insight to see that.

This gulf was underscored at a personal level by Chapel’s conversation with Spock, when she could not share her experience with him and he could not ease her pain. The scene between them was an essential confirmation.

What I found interesting is that Number One had the best read on the situation. She saw the pressure the ambassador was putting directly on the veterans in the crew.

As the executive officer, it’s her job to manage personnel, to assess readiness, to deliver a functioning ship for the captain’s command. She accurately saw the problem and recommended action to mitigate the situation by reducing the time to deliver the ambassador to Starbase 24.

What she was not able to do however was to convince Pike to stand down a bit on Starfleet’s toxic order to require veterans of the war to show acceptance of the ambassador. Nor did we see her attempt to try to convince Pike. He was leading from his values and unable to really take measure of its impact on the individuals.

I find it interesting that this show is giving us episodes that show the negatives of Pike’s command style as well as the strengths. While we’ve seen the negatives in Kirk’s and Picard’s temperament’s and command styles acknowledged in the movies and in Picard, this seems to be the first time we’ve had it done with a hero captain in an ongoing television series when he’s in active command of the ship.

I'm not a vet and I don't have PTSD but my girlfriend and I had some pretty similar issues to you with this episode. I think, thankfully, the episode doesn't seem to expect us to think that M'benga was "right" at the end, or to be happy about what happened, and the final scene between him and Pike is critically important because I don't think Pike is supposed to look foolish in that scene. Absent that, this episode would feel really gross to me.

As it is, really the only way I can work with this is knowing that the actual arc here is the enormous one that concludes with Star Trek VI, a movie that I feel only gets more radical with every year that passes and every rewatch I give it. Kirk's realization that he has to let go of all the pain and anger in that movie and allow the world to move on and healing to begin is, when you get down to it, maybe the most optimistic and important message the franchise has ever really tried to express, and if this episode exists as a "middle chapter" between the war itself and that eventual endpoint...well...I can work with it as that middle chapter. But I still feel pretty crummy about it.

On M’Benga, I can’t quarrel with a thing you say and I haven’t been through what you’ve been through. But I’d encourage you to consider that he’s not a finished product. If this show gets to continue as far as it can, we know he’s in for a lot more change. Maybe he has to heal from here to end up somehow working under McCoy. The state he’s in when he hides this from Pike isn’t the end for him. Maybe this is part of trauma we get to watch him process from here?

So I haven't been to war, or suffered through it or anything and I can't say I don't understand some of the feelings but thank you so much for sharing this. Partially because it makes me feel more hopeful that it isn't so black and impossible, that it is possible to heal and move on to a degree. I still agree with most of what you said, I felt sad, if not outright disappointed because to me M'benga's actions aren't justifiable. It would have been one thing to have Rahl go through Nuremberg style trials or something but the Federation did decide to grant him asylum. I guess I personally dream of a more optimistic world where it might be possible to forgive, but yeah.. idk.

I agree with you. However I see the Klingon as the ray of hope in this story.

Even if the Klingon’s diplomat status was built on a lie, unless something else reveals new information, the Klingon was dealing with his role in his past war crimes in a positive fashion.

This episode has highlighted how shady Benga has been for quite a well, from his daughter on in. Nurse Chapel walks the gray line as well. I do like him as a character and the idea of a murderous “Frank Castle, CMO” is hmmm some good stuff.

I liked the look Spock shot Chapel when she said “you feel like” and he was like … umm … surely you jest…and let it go. Very cool! And great Vulcan logic in this ep.

I am not a vet, and even I had to turn it off and come back to watch it later when I was prepared. That was super triggering.

@stuck Terrific performance, and a great re-imagining of a character that was woefully underserved in TOS.

She is really good. I loved TOS, I loved other things Majel did, but I never thought before this show I'd actually be taking the Nurse Chapel character seriously.

All of what you described gave me strong MASH vibes and me the think the writers had to have loved that show.

When the transporters were being announced, I thought of the choppers coming in and how they all mobilized to deal with it including getting people out of the way so new patients could arrive.

Not to mention the great but heart breaking episodes where they did have to choose one life over another and that was their job in wartime. So incredibly heartbreaking in a comedy show, heartbreaking in a scifi show, yet so poignant.

“We turned this war criminal into a crusader for peace. Just imagine what we’ll do to you, punk.”

I love when people post relevant clips. Thanks

Steady now, DS9 has so much more breadth to war than what we just saw. The pacing was too fast for a single episode with such gravitas for me. The final act in particular was rushed. A doctor as the real butcher (!), the ambassador without a real right of reply, and the implications of a cover up from 2 starfleet officers, one of which lied to the captain. The use of a banned serum also clouding the episode too, combined with special forces. A lack of chapel's report.

I suspect at least 10 minutes on the cutting room floor here. Wish it was there

Don't get me wrong. One of the best EVER in trek, I was glued from start to finish. But afterwards I wanted a two parter! Bring back some doubles please script writers and producers

As someone else mentioned in another comment, it's bonkers that SNW can do a cartoon episode, a war episode and a musical episode back-to-back. I love now experimental SNW is!

"... because I can live with it. Computer, erase that entire personal log."

The variety is one of best things about SNW. The whole episode was a thriller. You know somebody’s going to get stabbed, just a question of who, when, and how badly.

Up until the final scene, I was loving the episode. I'm still not sure I feel about that ending. But you are probably on to seomthign that there will be a follow up episode next season.

That Klingon headpiece and wig combination was evoking bad clown makeup.

The shininess of the prosthesis and lack of significant colour grading of the ridges made it appear all the more fake. I am not getting why so many fans think this is an improvement.

Yeah, but the depth was great, I really felt m'benga was a badly developed character till now, and this fleshed him out in ways that made him now one of my fsvorites, before he made no sense.

Also loved bunny's work as the klingon, that is ALWAYS a hard role, but he managed to nail him as

People will undersell how hard that is to pull off, m'benga's actor had 1.5 seasons to lay the foundation for aspects of his character (though honestly it was mostly done here) while bunny had this episode, to cram in all of that.

Help! How do you do spoilers!!? K, figured it out.

This is SNW's Duet. If it marks a similar increase in quality, then SNW is going to be amazing.

Even with this "backstory" of this green juice, it really isn't much of a backstory. It's just explained as some chemical that makes you stronger -- it still feels like a cheap plot device, and that action sequence in the season opener was still unexpectedly long.

This made me want a mash type start trek series about a medical base during the war.

It made me think of mash too, luckily hadn't just come off watching one but did have some of the feeling of darker episdoes

> Could someone explain the food replicator? I thought they weren’t invented yet? Or were they showing an early beta version that can’t get anything right?

That was a "food synthesizer", a precursor to the TNG era replicator which is more limited in capabilities.

They had something like this in Enterprise. It could only do liquids and it couldn't replicate the cup, so they had to get the cup out of a little cupboard next to the replicator. Basically a modern day drinks vending machine capable of producing any drink.

Honestly Una should have clued Pike in, not to mention starfleet being all “eat a bag of dicks” knowing full well who was on the enterprise…so who in command has it out for Pike?

I keep hoping for an episode later in the series that explains why enterprise gets a remodel with:

• food dispenser rations / shitty colored marshmallow food to save energy
• smaller crew quarters
• a less fancy bar/cafeteria

Maybe there’s a war or something that changes everything?

I hope you relish it as I do!

I screamed when he appeared on screen. It scared my dog.

M'Benga has compiled a hell of a list of justifications for getting demoted already, and (obviously) none of them have actually got him in trouble just yet. Secretly keeping his daughter in the transporter buffer, carrying super soldier serum about his person at all times, killing a Klingon ambassador... suffice to say he's a bit of a wildcard.

Yeah. There is definitely several stories that could play out here, for both M’Benga and Chapel.

Continuity wise McCoy didn't join the Enterprise until after the first couple of episodes of TOS s1, Mark Piper was the CMO for those so there is definitely a thread they could pick on prior to Kirk taking command of the Enterprise.

For Chapel we know she gets engaged to Roger Korby at some point. Will be interesting to see how they move the character to line up with 'What Are Little Girls Made Of?'

Not just by the time of Kirk. He's already gone by the time of "The Cage."

EDIT: No, I got my timeline screwed up. "The Cage" predates SNW. Oops.

Damn, that one hit harder than expected.

I heard some people complaining about this on a podcast but my view is that they're doing a good job alternating between the heavier episodes and the more lighthearted episodes. If we had 5 light hearted followed by 5 heavy episodes, it would be more jarring than alternating as they have been.

This is the episodic show for which the fans have been begging for years. Now that we have it and get the fun episodes mixed with the harder hitting episodes, some people have complaints.

We also have to consider that they are getting 10 episodes instead of 26 or 22. You're not getting 8 good episodes, 8 meh episodes, and 6 bad episodes anymore (thos is a reference to how screenwriters viewed episodes at the time). Now we have 10 episodes that need to be on point with maybe a couple meh episodes.

In my opinion, the best way to do that is to alternate as they have. Not everyone wants a serious episode every week (like all those complaining that Star Trek has become too dark) and not everyone likes the silly episodes (as referenced by those who didn't like the crossover). By alternating, you get that old school Trek, episodic story telling that make Trek so great to begin with.

I know you weren't saying all those things I'm alluding to but I was talking to my radio in the car as they were saying these things today and your comment brought those thoughts back out.

I mean, I keep thinking back to all the silly episodes of TNG, DS9, and VOY. Personally they are some of my favorites and don't detract from the more serious episodes at all.

I'm not sure that the Klingon had really let his history go.

He commanded indiscriminate killing of non combatants in fear has he lost ground. He ran from the battle and took the title of Butcher of J'Gal to hide from his actions, and his front of wisdom was just another way he could hide to preserve his life.

Fear of being exposed as a fraud caused him to lash out against Benga. He died without honor as the coward he is and was.

yeah, they used the Lower decks crossover to great affect to hint spock future and crush Chapel's dreams

@Olap @ValueSubtracted
Yeah SNW heavy this season👍

@ValueSubtracted ...thinking he is the superior fighter, and B) test if he can get a quick, sharp attack past his guard? Was he prepping in case he wanted/needed to kill him?

We don't see the end fight, but we believe from M'Benga looking Pike in the eyes, twice saying "I didn't start the fight" that he didn't.

However, in M'Benga's PTSD-ridden mind, where he never "finished" the mission to kill Rah, maybe he really doesn't think he started it, because Rah "started it" on J'Gal?

Re: the transporters.

Patterns in the buffer usually degrade over time - The TNG Technical Manual says patterns can last about seven minutes before degradation begins. Obviously, Scotty was able to extend this dramatically, though with only a 50% success rate.

They did touch on this in SNW season one, when M'Benga said he had to rematerialize his daughter periodically. However, the timeframe, while not specified, seemed a helluva lot longer than seven minutes.

About the bed: There seems to be an ongoing sub-plot about random systems on the ship glitching out. I've seen speculation they're quietly setting up some kind of AI takeover issue later on. Note the odd shot the episode ends on, with the bed's info screen flickering again.

@RootBeerGuy @startrek The transporter is essentially magic. If you think too long about it, you’ll wonder why, for example, everyone doesn’t “store their pattern”, and thus become effectively immortal. Or why a pattern can’t be materialized multiple times, to generate an army of clones.

I love Trek, but it’s much more space opera than hard sci-fi, and often the “sciencey” bits are purely for narrative convenience (see also “holodeck”).

There was the episode with Scotty in TNG (Relics) where there was indeed the problem of the pattern of the person who was in the buffer with him degrading, but that was over decades (2294-2369), while M'Bengas daughter was in the pattern buffer significantly less time. She was also rematerialised from time to time and it was noted that not doing so risked the integrity of the pattern, which contributed to the issue seen in the TNG episode.

I thought it was played like pattern buffer storage is an m'benga special skill he is better at than his peers . It was not something she was taught at the academy

They should take the idea of "storing people in buffers" all the way to extreme and explore it like Black Mirror does. What does this mean if everyone had the opportunity to store people in buffers? Can everyone sign up for this service and instantly beam you into a buffer whenever you have an incurable diseases at the time? Is there a service to auto-beam you into the buffer if the ship is about to crash-land? Can richer people pay to have poorer people's buffer be deleted when you run out of buffer space? What happens if there is a glitch and people who are in the buffer experience 20 years in real-time?

I think there's so much potential for more exploration here. It would be cool to have Charlie Booker on a Star Trek episode, as he kinda did a fun/excellent/dark Star Trek Black Mirror episode too.

I don't think it's been identified. However, she is a long-serving Starfleet officer, and was both a Chief Fleet Inspector and a (probably senior) instructor at Starfleet Academy before joining the Enterprise, so you could make a reasonable guess that it's a badge of seniority/advanced qualification.