This is outrageous! It's unfair!
This is outrageous! It's unfair!
79 comments
-
Exact same thing with aluminum. Officially named by the Brits, then other Brits didn’t like it.
-
The revised name is better though:
- Helium
- Lithium
- Beryllium
- Sodium
- Magnesium
And the next should be...? If an element ends in "um" there's normally an "i" before the "um". We should also fix Molybdenum, Lanthanum and Tantalum while we're at it. There are 80 elements with an "ium" ending, but only 3 or 4 (depending on if you say Aluminum or Aluminium) without the "i".
Also, screw it, #79 should be Aurium.
-
We should also fix Molybdenum, Lanthanum and Tantalum while we're at it
Add Platinum to that list. It is now Platinium.
#79 should be Aurium
And #47 should be Argentium.
-
Also, screw it, #79 should be Aurium.
You'd really be fucking Spandau Ballet over with that one.
-
I don’t really care what it’s called, just that the Brits have a habit (is two a habit?) of making up a word, using it until Americans adopt it, and then dropping it and saying “dumb Americans”. Not that that’s actually what happened, as I detail in my comment below, but it sure does feel that way.
-
On the flip side, how would you pronounce the following?
Helum
Magnesum
Tatanum
Sodum-
Writing them that way would be Sodum.
-
Sod 'em.
-
So dumb, for me.
-
-
I'd just say
Helum
\ Magnesum
\ Tatanum
\ Sodum
-
-
Well yes and no, but mostly no. The originally-proposed name by the Brit who named it was actually alumium. Scientists in other European countries (not the UK) gave him feedback that it should have the prefix 'ium' and logically be named aluminium as it is refined from an alumina/alumine oxide, following the naming pattern of other elements. He agreed and refined it to aluminium, but also used aluminum in a textbook he wrote around the same time.
This was all within a decade or so more than 200 years ago. The scientific world settled on aluminium long before any products had even hit the market in the US, but Noah Webster for whatever reason decided to use the spelling 'aluminum' in his dictionary in 1828, even though US scientists were already using 'aluminium' and it was more common locally. And once it was in the dictionary (with no mention of the alternate spelling) it stuck.
So this one is mostly on the US.
-
You’ve misread the Wikipedia. It states that he didn’t agree but it could possibly be named aluminium. He then proceeded the next year to use aluminum instead. It was then called aluminum and aluminium in Britain for years.
However, in England and Germany Davy's spelling aluminum was initially used; until German chemist Friedrich Wöhler published his account of the Wöhler process in 1827 in which he used the spelling aluminium[o], which caused that spelling's largely wholesale adoption in England and Germany, with the exception of a small number of what Richards characterized as "patriotic" English chemists that were "averse to foreign innovations" who occasionally still used aluminum.[139
So for almost twenty years the Brits (and Germans) called it aluminum, not aluminium.
Americans used aluminium until Webster heard aluminum and put that in his dictionary. Then they actually continued to call it aluminium until the 1890s (the Brits still using both at this point). Then there was a swap in that decade
It is decidedly (according to the source you posted and my past research) the Brits fault. They called it aluminum. They used that name for years, and then only later changed it and then acted like the Americans were weird.
So yes and no, but mostly yes, it is the Brits fault.
-
I don't know where you read that England used the US spelling until the 1890s, your own quote states that the 1829 Wohler publication caused 'almost wholesale' (overwhelming) adoption of the 'aluminium' spelling in England and Germany.
The Wikipedia article disagrees with itself a little on timelines to be honest. Under Origins it says 'aluminum' was used in Britain between the years of... 1812, when Davy published his textbook (prior to that it was 'alumium'), and... that same year in 1812, when:
"British scientist Thomas Young wrote an anonymous review of Davy's book, in which he proposed the name aluminium instead of aluminum, which he thought had a "less classical sound". This name persisted: although the -um spelling was occasionally used in Britain, the American scientific language used -ium from the start."
Then in Spelling section states what you've quoted which conflicts with the above account on timelines of adoption stretching the change to 1827.
Regardless though, it doesnt change the story much. There was use of both for two decades (not one) in Germany and the UK before they standardized on 'aluminium'. OK.
Brits still haven't used 'aluminum' for ~200 years, American scientists used it never, and Webster's dictionary & American engineer Charles Martin Hall (who wanted to advertise his process with the name Aluminum as it resembled platinum and therefore sounded more valuable and prestigious) are the clearly cited cause of its widespread use in the US & Canada (wiki states both were used widely prior to Hall's publication in the US, and 'aluminium' was more common), but.. nah, this is the Brits fault?
I'm not so sure I'm the one who misread.
-
but.. nah, this is the Brits fault?
I'm not so sure I'm the one who misread.
You’re literally arguing that the dude who named it that isn’t the reason it’s named that. Yes, you’re either misreading or arguing a lie on purpose. I chose to believe you were just having trouble reading rather than believe you’re lying. The dude who invented the gif named it with a soft g. We don’t go around saying that it is his fault people say it with a hard g. He clearly stated how he wanted it named. Same here. It doesn’t matter that there was a long gap in usage, they didn’t have the internet in the 1800s. It literally could take decades for information to disseminate at all. Those books that Webster used to find common terms came from somewhere. That original source had to have been the creator, who literally named it “aluminum”.
So yes, you’re either misreading, lying, or an idiot. So I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
-
You’re literally arguing that the dude who named it that isn’t the reason it’s named that.
No, I'm not, I'm discussing the etymology of the word as Wikipedia states it.
This is the last quote I'll drop from the Wikipedia article I've linked because really, you should be able to just read this yourself.
In 1892, Hall used the -um spelling in his advertising handbill for his new electrolytic method of producing the metal, despite his constant use of the -ium spelling in all the patents he filed between 1886 and 1903. It is unknown whether this spelling was introduced by mistake or intentionally, but Hall preferred aluminum since its introduction because it resembled platinum, the name of a prestigious metal. By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling [aluminium] being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium; in the next decade, the -um spelling dominated American usage.
This quote is from tthe etymology section, explaining how the spelling rose to prominence in the US - again, Americans drove this spelling adoption - Webster then HALL. Not 'the Brits'. 🤦♂️
-
This quote is from tthe etymology section, explaining how the spelling rose to prominence in the US - again, Americans drove this spelling adoption - Webster then HALL. Not ‘the Brits’. 🤦♂️
dude. who the fuck do you think CREATED THE FUCKING WORD.
Holy shit, I've never seen someone so fucking dense.
DAVY -> WEBSTER -> HALL
it fucking started with Davy, like this isn't a hard fucking concept to understand. He invented the fucking word. Webster didn't invent it, Hall didn't invent it. Fucking Davy invented it. It was literally a Briton that invented it. It fucking started with the Brits. The word wouldn't exist without Davy. The word wouldn't be in America without Davy. Do you actually think Webster just invented a different word to put in his book?
🤦 🤦 🤦 🤦 🤦 🤦
-
Lol you really don't understand what etymology means do you?
The purpose of this thread is talking about why the Americans adopted a particular spelling - the evolution of the word, not who initially named it. Words change and evolve over time, as does their spelling. This is why Wikipedia dedicated an entire two page section to explaining how the word developed (etymology - remember?) and the people who popularized the spelling.
I'm done replying to you, it's like talking to a brick wall and now you're just being childishly abusive.
-
The purpose of this thread is talking about why the Americans adopted a particular spelling - the evolution of the word, not who initially named it.
I’m the one that literally started the thread and no the purpose was not “talking about why the Americans adopted a particular spelling”. It was literally about who fucking named it.
No wonder you have no clue what you are talking about, you aren’t even on the right subject.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
79 comments