Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact covered up by the usual patriotism somehow?
I own guns now. I never did or even considered it until the election results in November.
Fr
A superpower by definition cannot really be a rogue state. A "rogue state" is a political label applied by dominant powers to states that defy the international order. For example Iran or North Korea are considered rogue states because they defy the international order. What is "the international order"?
Well, it's the combination post-WW2 institutions created by none other than the US. The UN, IMF, NATO, etc. They set the norms of "legitimate" behavior. When the US participates in military interventions, economic sanctions, and other aggressive actions it's framed as upholding "rules-based order" whereas identical actions by weaker states get them condemned with the label as "rogue states".
To call the US a rogue state is to misunderstand power. Hegemony is the ability to define reality, not just defy it. In this way, the US has always been a rogue state in the sense that it does whatever it wants regardless of the international norms. I mean, just look at the mid 1900s and its actions in Latin America. It was involved in about a dozen states toppling governments and supporting military dictatorships- including sponsoring the genocide of natives in Guatemala.
Yes, that's true. I'm more concerned with whether US citizens, whose past administrations more or less invented the term, can now recognize for themselves that they are no longer on the side of the "good guys" with this administration at all, but are now the "terrorists" themselves - the very thing that past US administrations denounced (at the time, of course, already completely speciously).
Edit: Trump himself has even brought the term back to a certain extent - and he is not only the personification of evil for the governments of other countries. I just want to make it clear that it's the same here as with almost everything he does: it's projection - whatever he accuses others of, he and his corrupt gang are the ones doing it.
Edit 2: Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this because I believe that Europe, for example, would be much better - I'm saying it because I'm from Germany and we have the history that you all know. It's not too late to put a stop to Trump and his Nazi colleagues, but it will take civil resistance. If there is no vehement resistance, I fear that history will repeat itself. Nobody in their right mind can want that.
My point is that there are no "good guys" and "bad guys". There are only differing levels of power. The US has been doing a lot worse for a lot longer. It's just that past administrations were diplomatic about their use of power. This administration, being a reality TV star, is just choosing to be loud about it.
America under Biden supplied 80% of the bombs that Israel dropped on Gazan civilians. Obama led the illegal attack on Libya and killed Gaddafi and doomed Libya to anarchy and chaos. Bush destroyed Iraq and doomed them to anarchy and chaos- creating ISIS. I could go on and on.
Most American citizens (just like the citizens of virtually every country in the world) are not really concerned with geopolitics. They have to pay their rent, they're gonna be late for work, their kid is failing a class, their girlfriend is pissed because they don't go out enough, they're tired from work, they're working hard for that promotion, they're worried about rent increases, etc.
So to answer your question. No, Americans don't really care. And even if they care, they're forced to worry about more pressing individual matters. Basically the same thing that happened in your home country in the 1930s.
Myself and and a good number of people I know are very aware and horrified. Unfortunately this isn't necessarily the case outside of my social bubble. Since major media outlets aren't doing a great job, a lot of people are trying to spread the real news in a grassroots style.
Edit 2: Please don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying this because I believe that Europe, for example, would be much better - I’m saying it because I’m from Germany and we have the history that you all know. It’s not too late to put a stop to Trump and his Nazi colleagues, but it will take civil resistance. If there is no vehement resistance, I fear that history will repeat itself. Nobody in their right mind can want that.
You say this while both your country and the US are supporting the genocide of palestinians with barely any civil resistance other than some toothless protests.
Americans for the most part are only dimly aware there's an outside world in the first place. The amount of covering up that needs to be done is minimal.
It figures it takes someone calling themselves "CanadaPlus" to actually see the actual question and answer it.
Everyone else is answering about how aware Americans are about what's happening, but the question was about whether Americans were aware of how the world perceived the US. The answer, of course, is "no, Americans have no idea because Americans consume almost no non-American media".
This kind of question coming up a lot is why I chose the name, haha.
I had a friend that that looked like they were offended when they found out Australian Idol was a thing and it wasn't just in America.
Yep. The concept that there's a symmetry between countries is a few degrees of separation away from many Americans, I guess. It's not weirder to have an Australian Idol than an American one. I've also had conversation where they assume people in other countries are patriotic for America. Like, even in the first world we all sit around wishing we were American.
Famously, many (most?) of them can't even identify the continents on a map. I'd be interested to see Chinese tested the same way, since I've heard they're on the same level of insularity, being another massive superpower.
It wasn’t even originally an American thing, it’s from the UK.
Leftists, of course. Liberals will continue to be in denial for the foreseeable future. Conservatives just dgaf.
Not all liberals. But yeah most. Or maybe I'm more leftist than I thought I was....
Liberals will claim that they are furious at what's going on and then proceed to vote for another capitalist who perpetuates what's going on, all while refusing to listen to Socialists. 🤷♀️
There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Or more likely, you believe white lives to be more valuable, and you take offense now that the US is directing their usual behavior towards white Europeans.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
"Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?"
And
"Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!"
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the "good old days" of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
That's why I wrote "...now definitely a rogue state". Not that there was much of a question before but now it should be obvious even to US-citizens.
I see the American media as softballing fascism, or they're just outright complicit.
No one will call shit what it is, and every fucking thing in the news needs to be both-sides-ed.
This doesn't help with the less educated grasping these basic concepts, nor does the massive stigmatization of intelligence and critical thinking, nor does the attacks on institutional education.
There's laws constantly being passed in the form of 'vouchers' to drain public school funds and funnel American kids into Christian indoctrination, and our public schools are now dramatically underfunded.
So I guess I understand why more than half the population just straight up ignores politics. because reality here is really depressing.
To be fair, this is pretty similar to the way American press covered the rise of German fascism at the time
Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I've seen two classes:
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It's the only explanation I have. These aren't random people I don't know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don't see a way to help them that doesn't involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it's going to make me resent them, and I don't want that.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who'd stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it's "Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here's how the election was stolen" (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn't work. It always ends with 😡👉"Your information is wrong and you're being brainwashed"👈😔 you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they're just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.
You are just a bit right, because you base your politics opinion on few, literally just few examples that you know for the entire population. I'm not saying youre wrong, but well, your experience might suggest right people are caring, while left is not, while one's experience might be the same but for left people. But definitely and we can see that in different surveys etc. that right people are just ignorant. They don't care what their leaders do as long as it doesn't impact them, and why is that bad? Because exactly the same way Hitler took the dictatorship. I believe both, left and right people are good, it just depends on a specific individual if hes not good, but the important thing in democracy is you have to care, no matter at which side you are, but you have to care about politics, and let the information in, not stay untouched when clearly basic humans right are being invaded.
Note, that this isn't actually the question. It's not whether Americans are aware of what's happening, it's about whether Americans are aware of how the rest of the world perceives the US.
We been a rogue state for 100 years
Many Americans are unaware of the problems due to media censorship.
However they're creating so many problems that even those with blinders on are seeing this shit.
As is typical for the US, 1/3 are deeply aware, 1/3 are in full "patriotic" support, and 1/3 are too distracted by the latest TikTok dance to notice.
In a burning house with three people, one is fighting the fire, one is pouring gasoline on everything and one is on the couch watching TV.
And Lemmy is disproportionately representative of the 1/3 who are aware.
If you look at the comments on a random public social media post, you’ll find the delusional third or half.
It basically boils down to where they’re getting their information, or rather, whether it’s information or “information”. A large swath of the population is so propagandized by right wing rag “media” that they are functionally incapable of rational thought.
I don't think that applies here. 1/3 in each group is fair for domestic matters. But, OP is asking about perceptions of the US by people in other countries.
In that case, even the 1/3 that is opposed to what's happening will contain a lot of people with no idea how the rest of the world sees the US. For example, of the 1/3 of Americans who deeply oppose what's happening, what fraction do you think actually read Le Monde or Deutsche Welle, or are even aware that they have an English-language service?
And, the 1/3 that is fully supportive of what's happening will contain a lot of people who think that this is improving how the rest of the world sees the US. Sure, some will be aware and will still be defiant in the face of how the rest of the world is reacting. But, others will be watching Fox News or Newsmax and will hear propaganda that convinces them that the rest of the world admires and respects the US more than ever for taking a decisive stand against the deep state.
So, as with anything involving something happening outside the US, I'd guess more than 50% of Americans have no idea what the rest of the world is thinking.
I think there’s another 1/3 - maybe at intersection of them all.
A great many people in shock, and don’t realise this is just America mask-off.
It’s standard American foreign policy and has been for 60 years. The wars they have started, the regime change, it’s all standard. Ask anyone in South America or the Middle East.
am from south america, can confirm. my country was couped by the cia, and we are still suffering from the consequences.
*100 years .... America has been doing this since before any of the world wars
should have voted democrat i guess
Those of us who aren't Team Orange or completely oblivious know, I think. An appalling number of people are completely disconnected from what's happening, and a disgusting number either don't care or love it.
I lost the last shred of faith I had in the American people with this election. I delight in the suffering of every shithead that either voted Trump, 3rd party, or not at all. ESPECIALLY the protest voters, conservative minorities, and rural idiots stupid enough to think Trump cared about them or was somehow a better because they didn't like something the Biden administration did. My schadenfreude levels are hitting new, bitter peaks there.
Depends. Everyone who voted against Trump knows this and it’s probably why they did but most non voters and maga are still ignorant.
The last administration proposed sanctioning the ICC
We have first past the past voting here, this means we don’t vote based on who we like but rather who is the lesser of two evils.
It makes it easy for good and smart people here to support things like this, even if they don’t want to, because the alternative is worse.
The irony is that had the previous administration followed what Obama and Clinton and every other previous administration did on the border topic, they would have won in a landslide. But now the corruption of the last few years is being revealed and it'll be interesting to see the fallout over the next few years.
The Biden admin and Dems literally tried giving the majority of the people what they wanted and the Reps stopped them to make Biden and the Dems look bad and the irony is Biden and the Dems were ready to give the Reps what they’ve been asking for with the border and immigration for years.
The average American voter is hilariously unengaged. Many of them read at an 8th grade level at best. We're suffering the consequences of an education system that has been tragically underfunded for generations, and our media institutions are thoroughly compromised. Because of this, media literacy may as well be non-existent. The worst actors in our public institutions know this and have chosen to capitalize on it. Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
We are completely lacking the most crucial part of any functional democracy - an informed electorate. We have the least qualified people making the most important decisions.
The United States is effectively a failed state. Many of us recognize this, but our options for addressing the problem are limited. We not only have to dislodge the largest defense structure the world has ever seen, but we have to somehow fix the plague of weaponized stupidity that is conservative culture in order to ensure the worst humans don't end up in powerful positions.
If you have any suggestions on how to start fixing that, I'm all ears.
For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument... then they'd see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan's podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, "is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?"
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you're always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument... then they'd see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
Well said. And honestly, it's even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I've even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
Well, I don't think you're wrong about an informed/educated populace not being sufficient to overcome fascism, but I have a hard time seeing us overcoming it without some level of education. Though obviously, the type of education matters (e.g., how kids are taught about Columbus is probably the most egregious example of a failure by the public school system to educate)
is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?
No, but it is the only logical conclusion of a nation that continues to venerate those genocidal landowners as heroes.
Hey now, I resent that. I read at a ninth grade level!
If you're really going to sit here and pretend that none of the things I mentioned play a clear and obvious role in our current situation, I don't even know where to start with you.
It festers because people bitch online then go break bread with their fascist Republican families.
Which has made those of us that will say something the bad guys (look at how they label themselves victims of words now).
If you do not fucking say something to those people EVERY CHANCE YOU FUCKING GET this is your fault!
They HATE shame. THEY GOT HERE BY BEING SHAMED BY THE GOP. SHAME THE FUCK OUT OF THEM! Take the damn flag back and prove they are the anti Americans already!
Foreign interests recognize the obvious weakness in our social fabric, and they have been taking advantage of it to great success.
First step is to learn to stop blaming other countries for America's failure.
Just ignored the entire first part of that, didn't you champ?
Parents set the stage for valuing education. If there is no value on it at home it will be reflected in the kids and it will then be passed through the generations. Generation after generation of barely getting by and failure.
While I disagree with the "failed state" label (go look at Haiti) it certainly isn't setting itself up for future greatness.
They are so unengaged because so many people spent years forcing the rest of us to “be polite” and not being up anything political at all for fear it would rouse MAGA from their slumber.
The amount of times I started to say shit and got jumped on by shit libs to protect the feefees of MAGA is uncountable. My own fucking husband does this to me while his maga family had the nerve to bitch me out for not having a baby yet (this was most recent). You all FEAR those losers so much you let them do this to us!
GO SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR FUCKING RELATIVES ALREADY. God damn GO SAY SOMETHING TO THOSE FUCKING TRAITORS UNTIL THEY DISOWN YOU OR LISTEN. DO IT FOR YOUR COUNTRY ALREADY!
In the Los Angeles Mexican community no one is fucking aware. In the Chicago black community no one is fucking aware. I'm sick of the people in this shit hole. They are happy as long as they have their bread and circus, no matter what.
Y'all still have bread and circuses?
My gay friends are all like "Oh boy I can't wait to eat at Chic Fil E", my Latina friends are all like... "I have a last mine Quince coming up... I have to get a dress. Gonna shop Amazon", and my black friends are like "I've boycotted long enough. Going to shop at Target."
We definitely deserve what we get, here. We realllly do.
Or Twinkies and Kardashians, or whatever other modern distraction from class consciousness used to drown out the sound of blood on the gears.
Same from my view. No one cares or understands. No one talks about this stuff. And if they do it's the same useless sound bite drama talk that's been meaningless for the past 15 years. Just entertainment.
In the Chicago black community
I'm sorry, what‽ As a black Chicagoan, no the Hell we aren't.
Well I wish you'd have a chat with all my college buddies from Columbia because I had to unfollow their asses after their long winded screed about boycotting long enough.
Imagine reading some fiction book, like fantasy or something like that.
You see a state that was created by genocide, which was continued until there was barely anyone left to kill, which state then became world hegemon, took control over nearly entire planet economy and proceeded to find new targets for genocide, ecocide, invasion, looting and murdering every political opponent.
You would think it's caricaturally evil, worse than Mordor.
And here you ask "they are now definitely a rogue state"? Now?
True. But what I mean above all is that the US is now more unpredictable in terms of foreign policy than ever before.
Yeah. The usa has always been relatively evil... But also fairly predictable .
Also worth noting that pretty much every country ever has been evil, with a few notable exceptions ---of which none of the eu are included in
It sure does look more unpredictable, but is it really? They continue basically everything except trying to wrap up Ukraine and fuck up and loot Europe, but marxists were saying this will happen years ago already (and regardless of which government will be at helm), so it is by no means unpredictable. The one thing that changed is the presentation, it is more honest but more erratic, though it is again what anyone could simply predict looking at previous Trump term and process of building his staff in preparation to the last elections.
Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you're there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren't for your pale skin, you most likely would've been deported or murdered before you even tried. Your privilege in USA is still based on your skin tone. Now you're supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. Everybody in USA has some sad tale. Fuck off with your bullshit, yt.
I see a lot of people starting gardens or looking to getting chickens to be as self sufficient as they can. Many are holding off on large purchases to save in case "something happens". People around me who were never interested in firearms and in fact were generally opposed to them are starting to arm themselves at a rapid pace.
Good luck with the gardens. I've never really been a fan of US gun laws, but now it all seems strangely sensible.
Interesting, but not surprising that this doesn't really answer the question. The question was about whether Americans were aware of how the US was perceived outside its borders.
I bought several fire arms recently and asked the local gun shops in a very generic sense about how sales were. All three claimed traditional winter slow sales and reported no uptick in sales. Also the local pawn shop guy has a ton of guns, there aren't any ammo shortages, all the paper work is sailed through no delays, the conceal and carry course I was required to take to carry a pistol was no where near full and the instructor said things are slow (but his class did kind of suck it was just the soonest one near me); that's been my experience the last three months.
I've always been interested in firearms, but not interested enough to convince my wife we should own any, well, she's convinced now! and I never had to say anything, so I agree with your comment.
We’re aware. People who get all their news from Fox or ignore politics in general probably aren’t but even my conservative family members are embarrassed about the threats to Canada and Greenland. Canadians are generally considered super nice and polite by Americans so pissing them off crossed a line. Even apolitical people probably know the U.S. National Anthem is being booed at sporting events.
There’s elections in several states today that will provide some data to know more. Louisiana had an election on Saturday and rejected 4 constitutional amendments supported by Republicans. None even got 40%. Louisiana is an oddball state so I’m not sure it’s a harbinger of today’s elections but if voters in Wisconsin and elsewhere vote like Louisiana, it’ll be very telling.
For international readers or Americans unfamiliar, Wisconsin has a state Supreme Court vote. It’s probably 50/50 and is the important one. Florida has 2 special elections for vacated House of Representative seats in Congress. The districts both voted heavily for Trump so the Republican candidate should win.
So, in Florida, don’t necessarily expect the Democrats to win. But if it’s even close, Republicans will be filling some diapers. They should be winning these districts by 20 or 30 points. Winning with 53% or whatever would be a really bad result for Republicans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/01/us/politics/wisconsin-supreme-court-crawford-schimel.html
Update: Eat can eat 1,001 dicks.
Canadians are generally considered super nice and polite by Americans
That’s actually a common misconception. We aren’t really all that nice. We just do passive aggressive really, really well.
I will accept passive aggression. A lot of people don’t bother with the passive.
I don’t know what our reputation is globally but I live in a tourist city (New Orleans). A lot of people don’t even bother with the passive part. Most “tier 1” conference cities are huge but we’re a relatively small city. We have a population of about 350,000 (compared to over 8 million in New York City) but enough hotel space and a conference center, stadium, whatever able to host a global event. The Super Bowl was just here and Taylor Swift had three shows. Those were known events but there will be weekends where you go downtown and meet 20 exterminators or something before you realize the exterminator convention is in town. (This actually happened to me. There are so many more exterminators than you could ever imagine.)
We host a lot of events and, as a result, even people who can’t afford travel meet people from everywhere. My high school friend is a bartender and he’ll have random hatred of places and professions because they’re obnoxious or don’t tip or whatever. To this day, he loves Hawaii residents because they had a football game here once and everyone was chill and nice.
Anyway, I say all that to say: Canadians are more than welcome to be passive aggressive here. South Louisiana in general is more aggressive than passive.
https://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2007/10/08/edsbs-road-trip-baton-rouge
I'm confused that polling seems to be neck and neck when the liberal candidate won by 11 percentage points last time around, her opponent sucked but an 11-point swing is wild here.
Once it’s all tallied, something like $100 million will be spent on a single state’s judicial election. That is insane. Ten million would have been insane just a decade ago.
I imagine that’s why things are close. A lot of voters are being bombarded with (mis)information. The people who are undecided probably have no idea what’s true or false.
It's covered up yeah, most of the republicans are too dumb to realize it.
Some of us are aware. We tend to also be the ones who know this only ends in some kind of revolution. No dictator has even chosen to give up power.
No dictator has even chosen to give up power.
Taiwan's did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taiwan_(1945%E2%80%93present)
It was actually neat. The "hybrid" between dictatorial state funding and a democratic business environment all but established TSMC.
Ukraine is sort of a dictatorship now, but Zelensky will probably give up power.
But, uh, we don't talk about them here I guess.
We know. We hate it.
This is correct
Aware and trying to let others in my circle that are unaware become aware.
No "average" person is aware because they are too busy trying to just survive. Nobody wants to chance losing what they've worked so hard for. The only people who watch the news are seniors and disabled people, and they're being misled if they just watch TV news.
People who call themselves Republicans are happy with what's going on. People who call themselves Democrat are not happy but think they need to work within the system to solve the issues and wait until the next election. Libertarians have sided with the Republicans. Socialism is still a taboo way of thinking for the most part here.
Then you have disabled people (like me) who are watching what is happening in horror and have sky high anxiety wondering if they're next to be disappeared or homeless. I can stand for maybe 30 minutes at most, holding a sign maybe 15 minutes at most. So I'm doing what I can and that is trying to live as if things are "normal" to continue on my mental health recovery and sobriety journey at the same time being horrified and terrified of what's to come. It's a weird duality that I don't like. I told my therapist the other day that I have hope for the future for my recovery but I have lost all hope in what is going on politically and in the news.
A lot of this I also blame on false American beliefs fed to us in school that we were safe from all of this nonsense because of our constitution. The American Dream and all that B.S. They sugar-coat our history as a country in schools -- at least they did when I went to school in the 80's/90's, I don't know about now. It's as if America only has a rosy history, even the Civil War is glorified in false narratives.
It's easy to see how we got to this point as a country. The question is, how do we get ourselves out of it?
Whatever the answer is, it's going to take years if not decades. I wish I had the answers. I wish I had the power to make things right. I wish I could stop the suffering. All I can do is do what I can. For now, that's surviving. For now, all I can do is continue to be kind to people and educate them when I can. Help them when I have the ability to.
My fellow disabled person, I see you. A murmur can become a tidal wave with time. We must stick together. We cannot lose hope. We must go on.
It's been a rogue state for decades, they call it 'American Exceptionalism', and the 'patriotic Americans' are happy about it.
Most of us are either completely deluded or utterly crushed by the collapse of our entire system of government. We know this is corrupt, and we want to organize to bring it to an end. But we have so many checks and balances that even if we all marched today with pitchforks and torches it wouldn't effect any real change without burning down every police station, city hall, state house, and the federal buildings. All while hoping the military doesn't show up and now us down with their weaponry. All the whole knowing that there has been a sharp rise in the popularity of police using violence and death as a deterrent.
In short, we know, and we can't see any way out of this mess. It wasn't supposed to be possible, and looking back we all saw it coming. But we were just dismissed as alarmists every time we spoke up and we are surrounded by morons who think this is the best thing that has ever happened to this national.
Mass strikes. Call your union, other unions, whatever union. Organise a mass strike day. Repeat it every week.
Unions? You think we have unions in the US? Most have been systematically destroyed by republicans since Reagan.
This is hilarious. Last time my union tried to do anything, Biden stepped in and stopped us. Then he took a victory lap about being a hero in to us while Congress forced a shitty contract down our throats.
Call your union
90% of Americans have failed at this step. That's not a joke or hyperbole, less than 10% of Americans have membership to a labor union.
Unions are rare here and trying to organize anything just gets you fired and jobless. Plus people are struggling just to eat, they can't all strike. It's really not that simple.
Half are aware, the other half is happy about how things are going. Apparently we have hundreds of millions of racist dumbfucks here.
There are plenty of racists who aren't fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren't fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren't fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren't fascist. "Stupidity" (im being careful here - i dont think illiteracy = stupid) and racism predates fascism.
Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.
It's frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying "well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!". It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.
Roughly half of the population has absolutely no clue what's going on. Kids, old people, non-news-readers/viewers, etc.
A third of the population is vaguely aware that some shit is going down based on vibes but can't identify the problem.
Half the remaining sixth can identify the problem as political but misattribute the cause. Leaving just a 12th of the population actually aware of our situation.
SO BURST THEIR BUBBLE?
They are unreachable. This is the most heavily propagandized country on the planet and most don't have the education to understand our political situation. Try and explain why corporate campaign financing is a bad idea and half of us start whinging about freedom of speech.
Now? USA has been supporting a genocidal nuclear regime in palestine for decades. They've been threatening and attacking every state in the region. Total rogue.
To some 20%-30% of the country 'patriot' means 'whites only'. Honestly, if your so dedicated to being a patriotic American you can't stand up to a government doing everything it can to destroy America, you're just an idiot.
Lots and lots of people, actually. Many identify with the tough-talkin' images being projected, believing it's just what the world needs and that the magic sorting hat will assign them to the privileged class when the dust settles.
"...that's what America needs, a businessman."
Pretty much it. They have been trained by decades of "if it bleeds it leads" news, Fox news, and talk radio to be in perpetual fear and see themselves as being under attack. The internet has fueled this wildly. They see everyone as being out to take their way of life away, steal their money (taxes), needing guns against the mobs waiting outside of their door, etc. On top of that is an apocalyptic mindset that used to be just evangelical Christian but now has become a secular mentality of "shake society hard enough and we'll magically come out on top". It is the lottery mentality of success, no effort, no self improvement just have it fall into your lap.
Meanwhile the wealthy continue to push for the degradation of society as long as it serves them in their lifetimes. Cut corp taxes to nothing, cut capital gains taxes, move from income taxes to sales taxes, buy struggling businesses, fire everyone, don't pay debts, take out loans against it then cash in on selling the pieces. Destroy the environment because only future generations will pay for that. Corp and capital gains tax cuts and tariffs put more and more of the burden on the lower and middle classes. Get rid of education oversight, medical research, financial watchdogs, etc, none of those matter to the wealthy who will always have access to private schools, concierge doctors, financial advisors, lawyers, etc. They just keep distracting the working class and rural voters with frivolous culture wars distractions while they pick your pockets.
Between the media surpression and the fact a lot of people don't follow the news, or give a shit, i'd say no.
We're successfully distracted by the more immediate personal problems they've created for us
It largely depends on the location. For example, in the PNW, especially Western Washington and Oregon, people are very aware of that fact. Many around here are arming, protesting, and becoming more and more self sufficient.
For their part, the Washington State government has sued the Trump administration multiple times, and for now, has blocked some of the executive orders in federal court. Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he's more than willing to ignore.
Meanwhile in states like Utah (where some of my family lives), they still have their heads in the sand, and don't seem to be bothered. Not to generalize, because some people there are aware, but they're outnumbered by the ignorant public there. Many people there who are aware are either trapped due to financial reasons or are actively trying to leave for blue states.
I have seen that some GOP voters are starting to feel the financial burn, but most of them still try to blame it on Biden.
Of course, that depends on Trump following court orders, which as we know, he’s more than willing to ignore.
I think that's been one of the biggest surprises to this European spectator - that justice can be ignored if you're powerful enough in America.
We had glimpses of it with the first end-of-term pardons. Then Biden did the same for his son, and Trump released all those who committed treason in his name on his first day of his second term. All those people were fund guilt after due process, but someone can unilaterally say "let them free" and they're out. I totally understand the lawyer quitting his career when Trump was "pardoned" for his own crimes after being elected. Biggest case of his career, years invested in training and work and he played a blinder - only for it to be turned to nothing.
So we've learned that if you're rich in the US (because rich == powerful there like nowhere else in the world) then you are untouchable by justice. For a country that was literally born from a civil war, that's a pretty huge failing of its constitution.
To be fair to biden even though his son was guilty there was no way that he was only going to be normally punished. I wouldn't let my parents be murdered for a drug crime.
I live in Utah, it's about 90% people cheering at Trump and 10% very polite demonstrations against the right that are highly criticized. Feels so muted here.
The only reason I know this is because I’m only interested in one particular firearm and I want to move to WA, but how are you planning to defend yourself with HB1240 in place?
I get that in peace time, 10 bullets per mag and no assault weapons is a generally good policy. But what happens MAGA decides to try to take WA by force?
In the part I haven’t looked up, does WA have a state militia that is not the national guard?
Additionally, you can purchase "parts" bags/kits which are marketed as "repair accessories" for 11+ rd magazines(usually 30 rds for 5.56 and 7.62). These somehow skirt around the law from my understanding. You're buying the complete mag, but assemble it yourself.
Not to encourage this as I am not a lawyer, but mags purchased before the bill was enacted are grandfathered in, meaning that you can still own them, you just can't buy them. So, if you own any already, you're likely fine as far as I can tell. I know that some people just go to Idaho to buy them and then they bring them back. Definitely illegal, but mags aren't tracked in any shape or form so they do it.
The semi automatic rifles themselves, as long as they were registered before the bill passed, were also grandfathered in. I'm not sure if out of state purchases count in that or not, though.
I don't believe there's any sort of official "militia", but the SRA is very active in the region and may qualify as one.
Just get something fairly common and a 10rd compliant mag.
Much of hb1240 also only applies to sales and imports, but doesn't ban ownership, so you can still have an ar-15 for example if you buy before you move.
There's plenty of higher capacity shit in the rest of the US, if it comes to a point where you need them, they'll make their way in. Just reach hook up with your local branch of the SRA when you move there.
WA does have a state guard, but it's like 50 people iirc.
I have 5 or 6 friends from all over the USA, all against the Trump administration…first and second.
The fascists own all the media organizations. The population has been taught systematically since birth to have unyielding blind faith in the institutions of the state and capital. Many won't understand that anything unusual is happening until they're hungry and cold, burying empty caskets for their drafted children sent to die in fascist wars of conquest.
This is the closest anybody in the thread has actually come to answering the question. The full answer is that Americans almost never consult non-American news sources, so of course they're not aware of how they're perceived in the rest of the world.
Nope. They'll still blame it on Biden.
Those of us who pay attention know.
However, the media ecosystem is INCREDIBLY conservative and pumps out the rah-rah jingoism whenever it can. Those of who just stick to the mainstream echochambers think the US is a bastion of freedom and peace.
How I pointed something out to a family member this morning.
When Israel attacks housing units in a country it is in a "ceasefire" with, the media says they are "threatening the ceasefire." If someone fires back. The media will say Israel is being attacked and the ceasefire was broken by the other party.
While that should seem wrong to many, it flies under the radar for many.
Great example! These little turns of phrases and wordplay that reveal the incredible right-wing bias of our media are all over the place if you learn how to look for them.
Another great example you see all the time is "office involved shooting" whenever someone is shot by police. It's always something like "John Smith died after an officer involved shooting" or "a gun was discharged in an officer involved shooting that resulted in the death of Jane Smith." Where it should be "Officer Joe Blow murdered John and Jane Smith."
You need to hound maga with shit they care about. Internal anti American shit the gop is doing will go way further than them giving a shit about foreigners.
INCREDIBLY conservative
Is this American for "full of shit"?
Yes. Yes it is.
There are protests going on everywhere. Corey Booker did his thing. It's not enough but people know something is going on.
Are people in the us aware... No!
I hope that people outside the US are aware of how quickly the rhetoric is shifting within the US. The right wing machine is rapidly spinning up a normalization of the ideas that: the US doesn’t need allies at all, the US has zero obligation to abide by international treaties, and the rest of the world is available for us to take. By ‘take’ I mean utter economic dominion and/or military conquest and/or territorial annexation.
The speed at which things are deteriorating here is shocking. An imperial US is a terrifying prospect. This deranged, entitled joke of a country has both an effectively endless supply of armaments and a depraved indifference to the suffering of people abroad and here at home.
The world has a metastasizing US problem.
Nothing is really changing. It's the exact same system as under genocide joe. It's a continuation of a loooong history of violence.
The West Coast is well aware. I really can't see anyone in the US not being aware of our country's wannabe fascist status, even though some will plead ignorance. I'm kind of hoping maybe Oregon, Washington and California will get together and ask Canada if we can join them... with a probationary period of course. No one in their right mind can trust us outright at this point.
No thanks, our conservatives are further to the left than your Democrats, and California has the population of the rest of Canada combined. You can make your own country
I agree about the Democrat party, but I wonder if the regular people of those states aren't closer to Canadians in their views. If they were to join I imagine the existing party wouldn't carry over and new ones would need to be organized.
There are some workable solutions inside the nation as well, as the federal system is dismantled. If WA, OR, CA, HI, the tribal counsels, and maybe AZ and NM (if they can play nice) got together, we could do a number of things to shore up the left part of the US.
First, states are not subject to patent. Each could choose a critical, expensive medication and produce it, sharing supply around the compact. Tribes could easily make epi-pens for their share.
Second, tie this into a compact equivalent of a multi-state healthcare that creates a floor healthcare for all citizens. Hawaii could lead this effort, they essentially already have it in their state. Get to the point you can cover people with income up to $70,000/yr california equivalent (based on living expenses) and let healthcare companies create supplemental plans like for medicare.
Third, as trump wrecks FEMA, form compacts for emergency response with mexico and canada and among these states. This is not currently legal but if FEMA is gone, why not just do it and who cares.
Fourth, create cooperative food sharing among states for excess crops. Federal programs just got destroyed, and california has a lot of excess supply. Let the compact members have a market where they can, as states, buy excess for their food programs. Let the program deal as an entity with non-compact states, which isn’t controlling interstate commerce, feds, it’s just the free market at work using the power of liberty to make red states either meet the price or we look outside the US.
A lot of this just recreates existing structures that are being destroyed, but leaves the red states that destroyed them to fend for themselves.
It just makes me very happy that you've done some deep thinking on something like this. First real smile I've had in a while.
For most of the democratic world, the US Democrats are right wing, like Canada, Australian mainstream. conservatives are to then left of the Democrats..eg it was Australians mainstream right wing party that brought in compararively draconian gun laws (by US standards)
Yea plenty of people in the south are aware too, things aren't "hidden" this isn't north korea or turkmenistan.. yet. As someone else said we've known this is what they want to do for a few years now.
Maybe if us west coasters make life a living hell for Shitler, he'll sell us to Canada. Just tell him it's a good business deal. He's so dumb he might just do it.
Please, Canada! WA and OR would make a lovely drive on your way to CA! We know they're the big prize but take us too! 😭
Shitler would never let CA go.
CA is the forth largest economy in the world. It would humiliate him to let CA leave the union.
Those three states would more than double the population of Canada and overwhelm their political system. I wouldn't do that if I were them.
@DandomRude@lemmy.world @MadeInOregon@lemm.ee
While CO put Lauren Boebert on the world stage, we are generally down to ignore federal authority. Rember when marijuana was illegal? Unfortunately that would require getting Montana, Idaho and/or Nevada on board. Seems unlikely.
Oh, we fucking know.
Doubt it.
What non-American news sources do you read? Do you really think that more than 50% of the US actually consults non-American news sources?
The USA was a rogue terrorist state already for decades in it's meaning for foreign policy and illegal wars. They did a worse thing than Russia did with Ukraine when they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan with flimsy excuses, except it was not a country on their doorstep but on the other side of the world.
Nobody is "aware" of this. People continue talking about US doing this or helping that as if they were not a rogue state.
So far Trump hasn't done anything irreversible "rogue state" in regards to international relations. He constantly sprays shit everywhere to get people to loose their minds. Yeah he's threatening to invade any nation where they could plunder, but he's only saying the quite part out loud. The US has been doing that for decades.
I also don't believe (hope) that Trump actually will start a war. It's not his stage. It's a long complicated affair where he isn't in the spotlight and doesn't get to shine and control the narrative with chaos and then hop onto the next thing the next week. He might bomb this or that as long as it's quick to do, but he only wants to appear as the big man. Obviously this is just speculation.
If you mean "failed state" or no longer a democracy, I don't think people think that already. They assume they can vote again for another obama / biden type in 4 years.
They somehow sanewashed dropping 2 nukes on civillians.
not even sanewashed, the justification was racists bs that japanese people were feral creatures willing to fight to the last japanese thus needed to get nuked.
Trump supporters are full on gung ho! My parents fully are into ripping this nation apart. They are morbidly obese people that rely on medications to live. Who would die from these issues if medication gets cut off.
We've been in a rogue state for a long time. Its been an oligarchy for a while, now you also have AIPAC in the mix.
We're inundated with propaganda. Our media is state run. All for-profit media is state run.
Our media is state run. All for-profit media is state run
Could you elaborate on that take?
Reporting on things outside of the leading party's agenda are not allowed in broadcast and print media. The leading party in the United States is the ownership class.
I’ve been saying this is inevitable since at least 2004. I’ve been called every name you can pretty much call someone.
I hate being right it fucking sucks.
Saying what is inevitable? That other countries will consider the US a rogue state?
My friend . When you come to realizations like that or thoughts such as "we are all one, connected and God is love" you have got to keep it under your hat or people will think you've gone mad
I’m so sick of caring about what the mad think.
You wanna get Fabian away from me
For some reason the administration and conservatives want to be a rogue state, they enjoy it. Rest of the country is either politically oblivious or helplessly defiant.
Kinda on topic, but imma give you some perspective into what it's like to be a liberal leaning person in a deeply red county. Half my friends are independent or republican, all my coworkers and my boss are republicans, and even my dad is straight up MAGA. I've always voted third party because I hated that Democrats never get anything done, but I did vote heavily democrat this past election because I knew how fucked everything would be.
I would say 99% of people do not care or don't think it's a big deal. The ravenous Trump supporters you see on the internet and in videos are more of a minority than the norm. There are definitely some hardcore MAGA here but most everyone is just regular everyday people that are just carrying on like nothing is different. Most of them don't spend much time on the internet and they hardly watch the news. I was talking about the tariff situation to a cashier at a gas station just this morning and it was the first time they were hearing it. And with the news not even covering half the shit that's going on they probably never will. My roommate works downtown and he didn't even know about the protests at the Capitol until I mentioned it to him 3 days later.
I guess my point is that the average person isn't even informed. Not everyone spends a lot of time on the internet so they don't even see what's going on. They decide to vote specifically because the candidate says "Republican" and that's the furthest thought that goes into it. Everyone talks about "this is what they voted for" as if any more thought went into their vote for Romney or McCain than their vote for Trump. And I don't blame them for it because as far as they know, this was just like any other election. They've been bamboozled by local news to think everything is still exactly the same as they slowly pushed the Trump agenda onto them. The hardcore MAGA are definitely fascists in every sense of the word, but these regular everyday people are not fascists. They were just voting for the party they always voted for and were just expecting the same kinda shit from Trump's first term, and the local news didn't tell them anything different.
Hugs from Germany. It must be painful to watch this unfold. Now everybody can see live how it all happened in Germany. And it is still possible that the fascist wave will roll again over Europe too. I hope we don't, as usual, copy every trend from the US with a few years delay...
I really can't imagine being friends with a republican at this point. I can barely stand to talk to my family members that I know are republican.
Oh man, that can't be true. I'm so sorry for you that you're surrounded by such ignorant people. It must be hell that nobody really listens to you. I'm really sorry for decent people like yourself and probably many of your colleagues, who I'm sure are good people in themselves. Tell them that the US is now an ally of Russia - maybe they'll understand.
Everyone I know is nihilistic and numb. We know.
Our media is in cahoots with the Trump Admin, so what do you think?
Any way you look at it, it's broken.
Most Americans don't think about other countries enough to really grasp what you mean by rogue state
You're one of the few people who actually understood the question. As a result, you're one of the few who actually got the right answer.
No, you just don't understand tariffs. I think about other countries a lot, like how they have to pay us, like so much money. We're all going to be rich.
We understand that fully 1/3 of our population are absolutely bonkers. It's like being in a boat at sea and 1/3 of the passengers are drilling holes in the bottom of the boat. What the rest of the world should know is that no matter how fucked it seems at the moment, it is going to get worse. We are on the precipice of a climate catastrophe. The AMOC is going to grind to a halt, Europe is going to go into a deep freeze, weather patterns globally are going to fall apart and become chaotic. The real problems are in the distance, so you should prepare yourselves.
But apart from all that, things are looking good?
😂
The 1/3 drilling holes in the boat are doing so because the boat is taking on water and obviously they need to drill holes so it will drain.
No amount of evidence, facts, logic, etc will convince them that their “common sense” is not only wrong, but actively making things worse.
I really need to build an emergency bag before the summer hits... Whenever that will be
uhhh always has been?? google github us atrocities
The phrase "rogue state" to me always just sorta meant "uncooperative with the United States," which the United States can't be. I'm sure there's a more useful definition.
Honestly? I think the US can be uncooperative with itself. At this point, nothing would really surprise me.
Midwesterner here. Surveys show Trump's approval rating between 40% and 50%, and here on the ground, I believe it. A lot of people are seriously misled. Fox News, OAN, and Newsmax are considered legitimate news sources, so a lot of people truly believe that Trump is improving things.
It will take decades to deprogram all the people who fell for the alt-right's tricks.
So, in a conversation with someone in the midwest who said he watched Trump's state of the union address and was appalled by the protests organized by the Democrats, that they are beyond lost because they would protest something that anyone should agree with (I think he was referring to not clapping for some veteran or something?) ... anyway, yeah - we're cooked as a country. ☺️
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Nope, because most US voters never crossed their county line.
That’s not true.
honestly, that's bullshit. i dunno if i'm just taking something too literally here, but no.
All politics is local
Shithole Country, Failed State. These are understating just how fucked up the US is right now.
The amount of harm Trump has done and will do to this country (in the name of trying to harm the entire rest of the world) is going to last for decades. And when he's done, he's so dumb that he will think he won bigly and his supporters will continue to repeat idiotic statements about how much better off the US is, and most of them will believe it.
This country is fucked.
Here in Canada, the general sentiment among people I've talked to is definitely that the US has fucked up it's relationship with us in a very long-term way, if not permanently. Even if the tariffs went away tomorrow, there's still the issue that Trump threatened Canada's sovereignty, which people here are not taking lightly at all.
I've heard people say that even if Trump went away, there's no guarantee some other dickhead won't take over and start the same nonsense, or we'll just be back here again in 4 years. Even the new Prime Minister said that the relationship we used to have with the US is over now.