GIMP 3.0 Released
GIMP 3.0 Released
210 comments
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Man, after decades, why does GIMP still have a marketing problem?
Just visit https://www.gimp.org/ and compare it to https://www.adobe.com/ca/products/photoshop.html
Just assume both did exactly the same thing and cost the exact same amount (free or otherwise). Which would you choose based on their website?
Why does GIMP (and pretty much all FOSS) have to be so secretive about their product? Why no screenshots? Why not showcase the software on their website?
It's so damn frustrating that every FOSS app appears to be command line software, or assumed that the user knows everything about it already.
Devs, you might have a killer piece of software, but screenshots go a long way to help with gaining interest and adoption.
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How is Krita? I’m on a Mac and my biggest problem with Gimp and Inkscape has always been lack of MacOS integration. Mostly with the UI but even shortcuts were wrong when I tried it. And the mouse/trackpad gestures were the dealbreaker.
I use Pixelmator, which hopefully continues to be a well developed pay once app, even though Apple just bought them. That and Sketch get me all the design tools I need for 2D and web.
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I actually like the GIMP website homepage more than the one for photoshop.
Its simple and efficient. If I want to know more I would go to documentation or tutorials.
The photoshop site just looks like a random squarespace template with a bunch of stock photos.
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If I want to know more I would go to documentation or tutorials.
See, that's not normal, though. You shouldn't need to "dig deeper" to find out what a product is or what it does.
The well-designed homepage should simply tell you that within seconds of visiting. Any additional clicks should only be to "learn more", but not to learn about.
If this was an analogy, imagine a street lined with restaurants.
On one side you've got "Vinny's Italian Pizzeria", "Joe's Burgers and Fries", and "Mary's Bakery and Treats". Each has posters of what they sell posted on the windows, and a QR code to their online menu.
On the other you have "Sal's Food", "Frank's More Food", "Sal's". The windows are either covered in brown paper, or have stock images of "food", but nothing specific about what they actually make. To learn more, you have to go inside, ask someone for a menu, wait for that menu, then have a look. But the menu lacks photos! You either have to know what they are describing to you in the menu, or you would have to have already dined there before.
Does the latter experience sound good? Because that's how too many open-source projects present themselves, and it's to the loss of the volunteer devs and their potential user base.
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Yeah… I was expecting a much larger contrast. Give me the one that doesn’t start off with several popups.
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I feel like the Adobe marketing is somewhat pointless. Anyone that has been in the target industries for any amount of time already know the deal.
GIMP is not Photoshop. They are not competitors. It's a difficult transition. I'm not sure we should even bother drawing a comparison.
I've used Photoshop since 1992. I know, I'm old. I started using GIMP about four years ago. I recently got to the point where I can function.
Money and momentum is a motherfucker. Adobe has fuck you money. GIMP has volunteers. Those that don't like their site should volunteer time or money.
Edit: fwiw I like the GIMP site better too.
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I totally agree
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You're welcome to contribute your experties.
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Agree, however on clicking the photoshop link was first hit with 2 popups before I could see the page.
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Idk if GIMP has a marketing problem but I definitely agree that FOSS projects should add screenshots and a description of what the program does to their website and repo. It really annoys me when someone links a piece of software and it just doesn't say what it does and there's no screenshots that would make it easy for me to see what it looks like and how the UI is structured. When there's no screenshots I'm rarely even interested in trying it out because, even with a description, I don't really know what it is. Like, I wouldn't be interested in a car based on only a description, I'd have to see a picture of it too.
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This is a frequent source of frustration for me, too. Can't even tell if it's cli or gui a lot of the time, based on the documentation. If I could just see what it looks like, I'd have a good idea right away of whether it might meet my needs.
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FOSS projects are often labors of love.
Nobody who isn't completely deranged loves marketing.
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Me: Hello niece, what career will you embark on once college is over?
Niece: Marketing.
Me: [audibly] Ah, I see. [inaudibly] Where did our family go wrong???
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Actually I would pick GIMP.
- Says what it is, an image editor.
- No popups and random interruptions.
- Not only AI editing examples which makes me thing the tool is AI only.
- An overview of the variety of major features it has rather than just AI editing.
- Links to helpful documentation rather than endless marketing pages that say nothing.
Really think only thing I would like to see is some screenshots and examples of using the tool, rather than just info on what it does. But the Photoshop page barely has this, just a few examples of the AI tools.
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I would have to choose GIMP (in spite of this awful name) because that page loaded without javascript and the photoshop page requires me to enable javascript.
I know I'm being a bit facetious, here, but... Adobe can afford to hire full time front end devs and designers. FOSS projects can't really compete with Adobe's investors.
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LOL. Brother, I get what you're saying, but I think you missed the point. If Random User X is just looking for an image editor, and they are presented with a few options they know nothing about. Do you think they're going to even bother with the one image editor that doesn't have any screenshots?
Just another comparison, a little more relevant: https://www.rawtherapee.com/
You know EXACTLY what it is and what it does within about 2 seconds. That would be more than enough information for someone to at least make the effort to download the software.
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Unless 3.0 has solved it, the gimp has a steep UI problem and a learning curve such that mass appeal on the website would be inappropriate anyway. I love it but I love it because I've been using it my whole life and know it very well. Foss in general struggles with useability due to a lot of hard to overcome problems - mainly, that by the time someone is ready to contribute to any given foss project, they're already intimately familiar with its foibles and probably have strong opinions about what UX elements are sacred cows and should not be fixed.
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Well, it has solved it in large part, yes. Tablet pen buttons are correctly recognized on Windows at last, GTK3 allows panels to be dockable pretty much anywhere, the interface looks generally sleek.
Now perhaps you could specify what aspect of the UI you find problematic, otherwise it's hard to respond to such a vague statement. Imagine you're a developer, and you read a piece of feedback that says "the gimp has a steep UI problem". Where do you go from there ?
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Gimp doesn't have a marketing problem. Its well known its just that not many people like it. It is not a nice program to use. I think gimp3 fixes a lot of the janky ui but I'll have to try it out again
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Yeah, every time I have ever tried Gimp, attempting to do anything felt like someone had purposefully been contrarian and made every operation work in the hardest and most confusing way.
And someone may say, "well, you just have to learn it!" OK, sure. Or I can use something that makes much more sense from the jump like Affinity Photo. (Yes, I know you have to pay for it, but it's worth it. Yes, I know not everyone has the money to do so.)
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this is exactly my opinion on it. one of my main gripes was the text rendering. if i needed to change some text i basically had to redo all of the work on any shadow or stroke as well, not just correct a spelling mistake or whatever. very excited to check out the new version.
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I don't know man, I think the Photoshop homepage reeks of corpo crap, whereas the Gimp homepage does a good job at cleanly presenting the program in a quick way. Maybe I'm just used to FOSS, or already too allergic to corporate software, but going by the homepage design, my preference is obvious, there's not even a contest
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I think my point was missed. I wasn't saying that GIMP should copy what Adobe does (I can't stand Adobe and their “business model” spyware bullshit.
My point was more to show that Adobe showcases the features of the software, so a potential user knows what it does without needing to go through the trouble of downloading it. It may not be what the user wants, and that's ok, at least they know!
But GIMP is so vague in their description and offers no insight to what the app does or looks like. There's no need to be mysterious.
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The photoshop page doesn't even have a download link.
0/10 would not download.
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Open Source software is not a product that needs marketing.
The devs making Gimp gain literally nothing from you downloading and using it.
Stop applying capitalist logic to one of the few aspects of life that haven't been monetized yet.-
Open Source software is not a product that needs marketing.
That's highly debatable.
Surely, if nobody is using the software, then there's no incentive to keep making it.
Marketing generates interest. Interest gets users. Users (hopefully) get donations and/or contributions to the project.
Even from a purely practical standpoint, why not be clear and avoid wasting people's time as they try to figure out what exactly a project is about?
I'm not suggesting that GIMP take out Facebook ads. But my god, would a few screenshots kill the project?
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Other programs like Photoshop lose money though. FOSS devs should just quit as they're their own competition.
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I mean, the Adobe website flashed me pop-ups about not being in the right location, about cookies - I would choose GIMP based on this.
I choose FOSS 90% of the time because they are not beholden to the same conventions that compel most for-profit products. A lot of the concerns I'm reading about readability, marketability, etc ring absolutely true for life-or-death for-profit ventures, but there are definitely people who don't mind missing all of that stuff in exchange for good and decent software.
The goal, after all, is to be image editing software, not an advertisement.
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Idk I like the gimp page. Two clicks, and you're into the tutorial on how to edit pictures. The first page gives you all you need to know: Image manipulation program.
adobe's page otoh... Well after the first two popups, I gave up.
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Alright, Second try and four popups later, I'm in. gotta admit the funny animations and the tools they show off are pretty nice
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I couldn't agree more and I see it everywhere as well. It's systemic.
Which would you choose based on their website?
Problem is, people on Lemmy are techies who might actually prefer the Gimp site. But any "normal" person would not.
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I think it's because marketing is expensive and marketing people know that corporations have money to throw at them, and the moment they lower their prices for a FOSS project, they might not get their old revenue when working for a company that can definitely pay what they ask.
We need some sort of FOSM (Free and Open Source Marketing) that helps FOSS projects based on some sort of queue and whoever has recent changes that needs marketing.
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I think it’s because marketing is expensive
Perhaps I should clarify what I mean by "marketing". I'm not talking about spending tens of thousands of Facebook ads, or any ads, really.
A few screenshots on a product page would be more than enough for some projects. Highlight some key features. Generate interest.
It's really low effort stuff that makes a huge difference.
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I mean, the name is a bigger problem than anyone seems to want to admit...
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Majority of area in the world does not recognize it as negative thing.
Even for English, English itself is diverse language. Singaporean English, Indian English, Asian English, definitely not negative in all of them.
Forcing one standard of language as a universal is a bad precedent for language diversity.
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I mean, the name is a bigger problem than anyone seems to want to admit
Which is why I use Krita and recommend it to other people... telling them to use GIMP would get too many laughs and weird looks
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Hey, you look interested in becoming a marketing volunteer for GIMP. While GIMP is not as competitive in marketing as the others, you can help them if you want. 😎
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the gimp one displays normally, while the adobe one shows a blank white page.
the choice is obvious
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Is it because in Linux the UI is so customisable that there's no definitive 'look' to sell?
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dont forget how they expect you to compile it. some projects offer a nice .msi for windows, a .whatever for mac, and then linux users just get a link to their github. i mean cmon.
edit: i'm not talking specifically about gimp, my dudes.
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That's false, not sure why you would say that. Literally just visit the download page
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compiling a program takes like 2 clicks dude
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zero screenshots on the announcement page and zero screenshots on the homepage. Exactly what i expect from gimp lol
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The UI looks the same lol
The layers are the big thing, but its hard to show because the final result looks the same anyways
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Aw man i was hoping for a big ui upgrade like when blender released version 2.8 that now even cinema4d is copying.
I fear gimp truly doesnt care about its ui/ux because technically everything you want to do is possible as long as you learn the ways ans they dont care to attract an audience thats not die hard FOSS people. For example schools havent been able to use it because theyre so deadset on their nsfw name and schools cant have kids googling gimp with the pictures that will show up
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To all of the authors below who have disparaging opinions on the UX/UI experience and or the download ability. It’s a volunteer project for a reason. If you have such grand ideas and abilities put your money where your fingers are and fucking sign up.
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A lot of the hate GIMP gets is people coming from Photoshop expecting it to work like Photoshop. In fact that's true for a lot of Adobe-like open source projects. That's why "industry standards" are dangerous and really only exist to keep one company rich.
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So true for all FOSS projects, the more successful they become the more new users expect a customer service dept.
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It’s been tried. The gatekeeping of GIMP’s monstrously horrific UI/UX is both vicious and impenetrable.
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Money link donate now you!
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GTK 3 support just in time for GTK 4 & 5
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No, no, no. It's the end of times. I can hear the trumpets of the apocalypse.
Now Valve needs to release half life 3 and the world as we know it will truly perish.
Jokes aside. I hope this means work on a UI overhaul can seriously begin.
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Valve needs to release half life 3
Jokes aside Fresh leaks suggest Half-Life 3 development may be nearing completion .
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Can you get apocalypse insurance? I think I'm in the market for it.
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Now I really want it officially announced on April 1. It would be a perfect moment.
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3 Sentences horror story...
Gimp 3, Half life 3, Bloodborne 2
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Nah, end of times is when Shenmue series finally finishes
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Incredible. This is one of those hard to believe moments.
It's been 21 years since the release of GIMP 2.0.
It's been more than 10 years since work on a majorly overhauled GIMP 3.0 was announced and initiated.
And it's been 7 years since the last major release (2.10).
I can't wait for the non-destructive text effects. After all these years of dealing with the fact applying drop shadows meant the text couldn't be edited, at last it's no longer an issue.
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As a long time - pre version 2 - gimp user my first thought was "what, don't be ridiculous" and now I dont know what to feel. Why would you do this to me personally
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To make sure to remind you to take your vitamins.
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Seems like a long time to wait for non-destructive drop shadows.. most other art applications including Krita have had that for a very long time
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Yeah GIMP is more than a decade behind Photoshop and a lot of other software in many respects.
It's frustrating. Basic things like content-aware fill for small spaces, not even AI generating huge things for large missing pieces but removing some text over a person's cheek or plaid shirt, something in total 100x100 pixels big or so. Just doesn't exist. You can clone stuff but it's not aware of things like the gradient of a shadow that it should match or a highlight or other basic things so you're left doing extensive work using layers and then cleaning it up to be visually acceptable using multiple tools over 10 minutes of time whereas Photoshop does it with one tool in an instant.
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Version numbers are basically meaningless.
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I opened it, changed brush, got a segmentation fault crash lmao
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Exact same thing happened to me. I opened it, read through the new welcome screen, and said ok let's go! First move was to select a brush and it crashed.
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Isn't C just wonderful?
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Nice profile picture!
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It's always the user's fault. Why do think you could change the brush using an UI element!?
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Hey, it's open source. Just open a C project from the 90s and fix it yourself. Ez /s
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Off-Canvas Editing Paint tools can now automatically expand the width and height of a layer as you draw! You can select “Expand Layers” in the tool options to enable drawing past the current boundaries of layers.
More features such as guides and auto-expanding layers can be used to work in the off-canvas space!
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Next. They should drop everything and solely focus on improving ux & ui . Every time I open gimp to try and get acclimated to it, I close it back out of frustration. Nothing is intuitive in that software. Not even the naming of the tools settings.
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To be honest, nothing is intuitive in any complex software. Every time I open Photoshop I want to cry in pain. But it isn't because Photoshop is bad (that I don't know actually), but because I am not familiar with it at all
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i mean its pretty good if you get used to it.. i remember the shortcuts for all the major tools i use and it's very quick and easy to use for me.
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This is exactly the problem they face. I use GIMP since ~15years. Any change they make will annoy me to a degree. But I also understand that getting into the UI is not that easy. They somehow have to manage these two completly opposing interests.
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Nothing is intuitive in that software.
UI/UX is a very very difficult job. I've only ever known a few UI/UX artists that were any good, and OMFG, are they expensive.
You can't just drop everything and focus on something where you don't have domain experts. Not to presume too much about you, but that would be like saying you need to drop everything you're doing and focus on brain surgery next year. UI/UX is art. It's a very specific type of art that, unfortunately, doesn't come easy for people. There are companies for hire that work professionally on UX/UI, but they're not cheap either. Anyone can spot bad UX, but knowing how to fix it in a way that works for everyone, that's nearly a unicorn.
I've been using gimp since it was released for daily driver projects.
I've been using Photoshop for about a decade when required for gigs.
I can get around either app pretty decently at this point.
If you drop any new user into either, they'll be absolutely lost.
If you drop a seasoned Photoshop user into GIMP, they'll not only be lost but be unable to use their vast array of plugins and macros and aren't quite (but non-technically are) impossible for the average user to work on.
We can't make Gimp Photoshop-like. We can make strides to improve Gimp, but it's beyond reach for the current team. Maybe we can start a crowdfund to get a UX company to take a stab at it, but even at that we'd need buy in from the developers and it would likely be an incredibly large rework, not unlike the current one that took quite a long time.
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@rumba @mtchristo To gently disagree with you here: UI/UX work is absolutely not art, and in fact, this painting of the profession as some artsy fairy-dust non-technical creative magic is a big part of the reason why FLOSS projects have trouble attracting designers—they don't respect their work.
UI/UX makes broad use of scientific evidence as to how people see, perceive, and interact with things around them. Conducting studies is literally part of the job at large companies, and those who do not have the budget rely on resources like reports from the Nielsen Norman Group to get up to date information on topics such as how people's eyes scan a page, how content influences this, effectiveness / interaction rates of different design patterns, et cetera.
Unfortunately for the odd designer who does wind up in a discussion on a merge request on GitLab, their expertise is often treated as a difference of creative opinion by developers who know nothing about basic design principles such as gestalt psychology.
The problem of poor UX in FLOSS can't be attributed to a lack of talent; the fact is that FLOSS projects are not hospitable environments for designers, both technically and culturally. For a start discussions happen on GitLab et al, platforms which are confusing to people who aren't developers. And then, whereas if a non-technical user started arguing with devs on matters they don't understand they'd be booted from the discussion, devs who clearly don't have even basic design knowledge get carte blanche to debate against designers (on design, not technical feasibility), and their positions are treated as equally valid because they see design expertise as art—a subjective matter of mere opinion.
If FLOSS devs want usable interfaces (and I'm not convinced many of them do) this is the problem that needs to be solved.
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We can’t make Gimp Photoshop-like.
bring back gimpshop for those who don't want to deal with it.
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It is essential that you explain exactly what you find unintuitive, otherwise -forgive me, but- this feedback is worthless. Make a bullet list, with captures, show how you would rename or rearrange things. Do your part !
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I followed some YouTube tutorial to rearrange all the stuff that can be to make it more like photoshop, which did make things somewhat better
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Now do VLC 4.0 :D
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So in the end we got gimp 3 before GTA 6
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We got gimp 3 before half life 3.
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We got Gimp 3 before The Winds of Winter.
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Brilliant and huge congrats to the amazing people who worked on it. One silly question though, is the "new" Gimp logo supposed to look out of focus or are my eyes getting old?
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Already on flathub. Nice modern packaging world. https://github.com/flathub/org.gimp.GIMP
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Hot damn! Never thought that I'd see the day.
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FUCK YES!!!!!
I’ve been waiting for this for years! Omg, what awesome news!!
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I've only used GIMP a handful of times, so please forgive my ignorance -- how does 3.0 compare to Krita or IbisPaint?
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GIMP is generally geared towards photo-editing, so if you have an existing image, you can use GIMP quite well to e.g. cut out parts of it or to apply effects.
It's not really geared towards digital painting or creating new images from scratch, like Krita and presumably IbisPaint are.
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I've been seeing quite a few posts about this, pretty funny that it all happened so fast.
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GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) version 3 has been released. But when will Valve release Half-Life version 3? They have already released 1, 2, the episodes, and Alyx. But when will Valve release 3.0? This is not fair because even GIMP has reached version 3.0, but Valve's Half-Life has not. 😔
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It finally happened!?!
210 comments