The one drawback to walking at night
I didn't mean for this post to cause a bunch of arguing in the comments =(
I thought this was just some gallows humor (e.g. "Everything's lovely except that I have to fear for my safety all the time") type of shitpost that sounded similar to comments I've heard from women irl a lot.
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
I too support women in men-dominated fields
I blame women.
For not murdering enough. The streets would be safer if men had the same fear.
Psychopaths can’t feel fear
Wow calling for the death of innocent people based on gender.
The fuck is wrong with Lemmy upvotng this.
its a joke fella.
I'm thinking more of a voluntary program.
That shadowm'n on her 1am walk is gonna go away quickly if I'm with her and she ices me right there in the Applebee's parking-lot 🫠 she's allowed to do it. It happens all the time...
I wouldn't say I love murdering, but it is a neat little hobby to pass the time.
My god, I am a cis male and I don't feel threatened or targeted by this. I think there's a reason why certain men feel attacked.
I should have expected to see a bunch of whining when I opened the thread.
I'm also cis male and I am worried about strange men coming near me at night when no one is around. Because, you know, muggers and shit. They murder sometimes too. Does that make you whiny little bitches' hurt feelings go away?
My brother is a cis male too, he was assaulted and robbed, by two males (at least seemingly so, can't exactly say what they identify as 6 years later).
Just a bunch of males who only complain about the statistics of men being harmed when women talk about systemtic sexism. They'd probably also loudly claim that white people are victims of racism too when a black people talks about being harassed by cops.
Fucking hate Reddit 2.0 for this shit.
Nyah. Different people load different meanings. Like
men love to commit murder
and
women love to make things up
Both are provocative statements which will be viewed fundamentally differently even by people with similar values.
Same, i also don't like to walk around at night. And it's not because i'm afraid to get hit on by some random women.
Seriously man, it's so fucking cringe. I thought this website would be better than the pathetic comments here, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I'm disappointed in Lemmy and lemmings, I thought we left this shit in Reddit. Can someone lock this dumpsterfire of a comment section already?
Agreed. Like I get "hurr durr statistics". But you're not very likely to be in a car crash on any given day, but you still put your seat belt on. That people can't take the backseat for just a second and have some empathy for the struggles of other people without butting in with whataboutism. You're even allowed to share in their struggle. I don't fear I'll be SAd, but of course I fear physical violence, so use your commonality to support each other rather than trying to one up.
As a girl, I love taking walks in the evening/night or early in the morning, they really are a vibe! However if there's a man who appears to be following behind me, I always grab my keys in my pocket to be ready to fight in case he tries anything. I will also text friends/family when I'm going out and text them when I arrive back home.
Random woman: I like late night walks, but I'm scared for my safety.
This thread for some reason: YOU DON'T THINK MEN GET SCARED? MURDERED!?
Like, chill. Yes, men can absolutely be murdered/hurt walking alone. But are we really going to sit here and act like women are making up their concerns/grievances out of spite? For some reason, if anyone mentions a general concern/issue related to women's experiences with men, some people trip over themselves to say how it's actually not an issue and how it's actually so much worse for men. If I'm listening to a male DV victim and I go, "well, actually, women are more likely to be victims of DV. You know, it's actually not even an issue for you. Here, look at these numbers that prove that women are the victims. Do you not mention it because you hate women? Why are you trying to ruin our spotless reputation as delicate flowers that can do no wrong with your lies", you would think I was nuts, and for good reason.
Also men in this thread: THIS IS LITERALLY EXACTLY LIKE RACISM
I mean these comments are pretty insane but cmon you know what you said is not equivalent, this meme uses othering language and people got mad at it because it groups them with people they likely despise. Why can't we just be on the same team? If I say "being outgoing is a vibe too bad women love emotionally abusing people" I sincerely hope you wouldn't defend that.
I wouldn't defend it because I wouldn't even think it was talking about me in the first place. Some women are emotionally abusive, but I wouldn't assume they literally meant every single woman on earth is an asshole and feel the urge to swoop in with, "Hey, not all women. Some of us are nice! Here, look at these studies that show that women are more likely to be in the other end of the abuse!"
Honestly, I'm more concerned if you think the threat of murder at night is a comparable threat to emotional abuse from any gender.
I get that Lemmy skews young and male and not on 2010s social media (like old Twitter) but it's almost like they weren't around for the discussions that the "NotAllMen" hashtag generated, or the coining of the term sea lioning.
Read the text again, there is no mention of fear. It doesn't even mention anyone being scared. It says something else.
Also: women do in fact make shit up. For many reasons, including spite.
Hey look, it's the man we are afraid of!
This also depends on what kind of roads you have to walk on - highways suck for nighttime walks, because not only are you constantly on edge to try not to get run over, you also need to walk for miles to get anywhere.
Suburbs are nicer, but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
I don't know where I was going with this. I lost my train of thought.
Easy solution: bring a bear. Much less chance of being murdered, and the bear gets to shit in the woods. Well, park, but close enough.
My suburb neighborhood is filled with walkers and it is super unsafe at night. They decided when they built it that they didn't want to to create and maintain sidewalks and street lamps, so people always walk in the road and the only lights are the lamp posts at the end of people's driveways. And almost nobody wears reflectives, or carries lights or anything on their person. Particularly when you're blinded by an oncoming car's lights, it's nearly impossible to see people until you're right up on them.
but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
Is this a vibes-based take of do you actually have any stats on the matter?
Fwiw, the best is hands down a walk in a still kind of crowded city center. Few things bring as much security as eyes on the street
That's your problem. You're supposed to be walking, not riding a train...
You'll be fine if you just keep away from Assault Av., Murder Blvd., Rape roundabout and Stabbing St.
/S
In the US walking outside is generally terrible even in the suburbs.
Bears win again
Anyone who wouldn't pick the bear does not deserve bears.
If you see something like this and get angry at women, you have a problem.
At best it's a problem with reading comprehension. At worst, you're worried that things like this could get in the way of your murdering-women hobby.
My problem with this post is exactly the same I have with any broad assumptions over a poorly defined group: taken as fact, they're false.
Of course it's meant to make a point, and a very valid one. But I'll point out that there are many places in the world where a young woman can go out for a walk at night without fear of never being seen again, and it's not because there's fewer men, so perhaps we should focus on the conditions to achieve this?
If the meme was clearly an assertion of fact that men in general love murdering women, yes
Personally I read it as "[some] men love murdering"
Statistically most people don't get murdered, but air-travel is also very safe, and people are still afraid of flying. If a meme about wanting to travel said "shame that planes crash" people probably wouldn't be all angry about it. Or perhaps they would, people* are weird
(* again [some] people)
I've been told my whole life tbat i can't go out at night alone because it 's unsafe. Why is it unsafe? Because there are men out there. Apparently it's ok for the men in my life to say other men are dangerous but it's not ok for me to say that men are dangerous. A plague on both your houses. You are all unsafe.
Noooo not my woman murdering hobby >.<
I'm sorry, I know it's a hobby with long traditions, but woke people have ruined it
What and guys aren't worried about being murdered by other dudes at night? Lol
Statistically men are more likely to be attacked, robbed, sexually assaulted (in a public institution) and shot than women.
Men are more likely to be murdered in general.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
Violent crimes happen to men more than women on average.
I am a HUGE advocate for women staying safe. I think more women need to purchase and properly learn how to use a personal high speed lead slinging device.
HOWEVER I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims. Statistically they aren't more frequently attacked or murdered. In fact they are slightly less likely to be victims. Bad people are gonna do bad things and everyone should learn to protect themselves against those bad people.
DOUBLE HOWEVER Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
At the end of the day everyone should stay safe. Keep your head on a swivel. Obtain and learn how to use a personal defense tool. Be smart.
I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims.
who said this?
honest query. I don't see it in OP's statement. You do corroborate their premise -
Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
so why the strawman argument at the start?
I wonder if the murder rates are skewed by organized crime/gangs. That has a male skewed gender ratio and high murder rates.
Gangs drive murder rates. Looking at areas in the US without gang activity, the murder rate is almost as low anywhere else in the world.
Almost certainly.
Unfortunately it's very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately. It's difficult to pin down what murders are for sure gang related and which ones aren't. Obviously there are some situations where it's very clear, but some where it is not. Where you draw that line changes things significantly.
I routinely would go on long walks at all hours of the night (like 3am), with headphones on. Ive done this in the US, Brazil, and Europe in all kinds of neighborhoods. I was a 180lb male and I somewhat consciously and subconsciously would put on the lunatic vibe of "I am the one who knocks".
Now I started my transition, down to 150 lbs, dressing more feminine. Still have a decent amount of muscle but Truuust me, the vibe is not the same. This meme is valid.
I'm a cis man and closer to 140 lbs (with average height). And though I don't regularly go out for night walks, when I do I don't feel particularly unsafe. A little more cautious perhaps, especially around groups of drunk people but that's about it.
If I were forced to fight the average person I meet at night I would literally have to resort to using my damn teeth or expect to be beaten up to a pulp at the very least.
Still, the risk of me ending up in such a situation is tiny. I'm far more likely to be run over by a car - which actually almost happened a couple weeks back had I not paid attention.
Honestly, I think large parts of women's fear at night in the US is culture dependent. You don't have walkable streets over there so children don't have the opportunity to walk to kindergarten or school. Over here in winter children are literally walking to school at night, before sunrise.
You do have a shitton of neverending fear mongering. Like, the concept of "Amber Alerts" is absurd over here in Europe, I can't imagine what this would've done to me as a child if I had been told on a daily basis that strangers are out to get me.
Tl;dr it's probably culture dependent
So of the photo was of a man, bit with the same text it would be ok. Right? Both you, me, and the woman in the photo agree that men are the problem.
"Not all men" agreed, but enough to men to make others afraid.
True. The caption doesn't imply any gender for the potential victim, it just happened the original poster is female.
If they have to post any statistics at all, it should only be about the criminal, which they did but with a Google AMP link grrrrrrr
Ohh is this the part where you break it down further and try to say because statistically PoC are more likely to commit crimes that PoC are the problem?
Because that’s certainly sounds like the sort of shittake you’re already doing there.
Discrimination has no place.
I personally have mad bo staff skills. I fear no man. Grizzly's scare me, but no man.
What those statistics do not take into account is the different incidence rates of men/women being out alone at night.
Because women feel more afraid going out into the dark alone, they're less likely to do so, creating less opportunities for them to be robbed/raped/killed.
To make an analogy:
What are my chances to drown in the sea if I never go swimming in the sea? 0% chance.
What if I go swimming once a week, with a risk of drowning of 0.5% each time I do so: then there's ~23% chance that I'll drown by the end of the year.
What if go swimming twice a year, but because I'm such an amateur the chance that I drown is 5%: there is ~10% chance that I drown by the end of the year.
Conclusion: even though it is 10x more dangerous for the inexperienced swimmer to go swimming in the sea, in a given year the experienced swimmer is still 2.3 times more likely to drown in the sea than the inexperienced one.
There are shittons of rape & murder fantasy communities with secretly taken & stolen pictures on porn & snuff websites, on the snuff websites there’s unfortunately also real stuff.
This is something I really didn’t want to know. I wouldn’t want to walk in the shoes of my gf honestly just judging from the amount of harassment she faces in liberal, progressive western cities by men of all age & skin color (need to say this nowadays unfortunately). Add to that being physically inferior that creates a sense of being constantly threatened. Also, they are targeted specifically because they are women and femicide is a real, bad issue.
Not disagreeing that anyone could be affected, just saying I can easily walk at night because no one would target me specifically for being a man.
You write like you are disagreeing with something in this post, in your own small pathetic way. But I fail to see what part of the post you are disagreeing with
That's a lot of not making a point. The girl in the OP is still worried about walking at night and the most common threat to a woman in that situation is still men. You didn't counterpoint any of that, so it is just you shouting into the wind about stuff no one is talking about. Cool.
The girl in the OP is still worried about walking at night and the most common threat to a woman in that situation is still men. You didn't counterpoint any of that,
Here's one. In my area, statistically I'm more likely to be physically assaulted by an african american male than anyone else, does that make it ok for me to post things like "I can't go walking at night because some black men like to murder?" Clearly NO, because I've simply added one demographic factor, that is still statistically more likely to attack me, and that makes it racist. Just because I am more likely to be attacked by a black guy because of the actions of a small subset of that demographic doesn't mean it's ok to treat every one of them as an attacker, and I'd argue the same goes for race agnostic "men" generalizations based on a small subset of that demographic either, even though statistically an attacker is more likely to be a man as well.
But it is not because of being women per se. Women are an easier target to get robbed for example...
Wow. That is a whole lot of getting your undies in a wad over a meme that does NOT exclude any gender feeling this way.
You brought a bunch of bias to this one. Might want to look into why that is
username checks out
I dunno feels to me like you're the one getting upset about his post and not vice versa.
I always use statistics to consider who I watch out on the street
It's amazing you get negatives just because that stats aren't looking so well for that. Sorry but as always these chihuahuas getting negatives without counterarguments is the most annoying part...
lemmy.world mods finding out that they've cultivated a community of reddit incels:
This from a user on an instance that's known for their open villification of any opinion that goes against the moscow and beijing dictated groupthi--
Wait, wait hold on. Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip? Maybe there's a vested interest on every side to keep the early adopters of a decentralized social media platform infighting over meaningless stereotypes based on the letters that come after their username, making value judgements based entirely on dictated preconceptions instead of experiential conclusions and honest interaction?
... nah, probably not. And besides, it's way more fun to just sling mud. Screw u, u commie scuzbucket.
SJW here and I just wandered in, but now I'm grabbing the popcorn and a seat
Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip?
nope, it's because your instance is operated by people who refuse to moderate disinformation under some naive belief that enough debate bro-ing is all it takes to defeat it, failing to understand that the effort it takes to proliferate hate and disinformation is much smaller than the effort it takes to refute it. as such, lemmy.world is becoming overrun with some of the most toxic motherfuckers on the entire platform because all the sane people are being driven away.
When the Reddit 2.0 copies all the worst parts of Reddit: 🤯
Well when you scrape the top layer of reddit mold, which is comprised of the most politically and socially charged individuals, and put them in one place, this is to be expected.
Reading the comments make me feel like I'm reading 4chan. How are people getting triggered by that post
It's literally engagement bait gender wars bullshit. This conversation is fucking useless until you start asking WHY and none of them do, they just start throwing bullshit around about their own personal anecdotes or start screaming "NO THATS NOT TRUE" "YES IT IS"
It's a useless never ending "debate". Man vs. Bear should've taught us that. Mods should've locked the post or deleted it already IMO.
One of the mods posted this
Enacting change is not the point of the post, it's just a woman making a joke about the way she experiences life to others who may experience life in the same way. Men just got their feelings hurt and now, instead of trying to prove they're not sexist, they're in full denial about the rampant oppression women live every day.
I'm gonna bring this thread up the next time people throw a tantrum when I say Lemmy is sexist.
The problem with that is that the ones throwing those tantrums (or is the plural tantra???) are the same ones making the problem comments here.
You don't get it? I'm not upset by it, but it makes sense that others might.
What if instead of men it said Jewish people? Black men? Short Asian females? Brown folks? Makes it a little more obvious why it would be problematic no?
It's casting blame/shame on an incredibly large group for no particular reason (humor?). It's just a dumb joke, but again, I get why some might be offended a bit.
If a white dude would say this, the prople getting triggered right now wouldn't even care. The post wouldn't even get that many upvotes. Most people are getting triggered because it's a woman saying it.
It's pretty crazy, like when people go ''men who rape children should be in prison for life or capital punishment'' I've never once in my life read that and thought ''Oh no! How mean! You're hurting my feelings, what if instead of 'men' you said 'jews' then you'd see how hateful and mean your statement is!''
Are you a murderer, bro? No? Well maybe this ISN'T about you special boy feelings? Crazy I know.
It's the same when people dicuss any form of racism, or the history of slavery in the US. What do you get? Self identifying white people loading up the comments with ''I DIDN'T DO SLAVERY STOP HURTING MY FEELINGS!!!'' or ''You know what's a totally unnecessary justification for chattel slavery in US history? Also African people did slavery. So. STOP HURTING MY SPECIAL WHITE FEELINGS!'' or ''You know what's a lie that I use to justify my racist feelings towards anyone with darker skin than me? I can blame all the darks for the actions of individuals who are also darks, but don't you dare talk to me about white men statistically being more likely to molest kids or commit arson or murder white women they are married to or dating or being more likely to abandon their children that's FUCKING REVERSE RACISM! I'M THE VICTIM OF THE REAL RACISM NOT THOSE DARK SKIN PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL THE SAME AND EVIL!!''
it's fucking exhausting.
Lemmy.world moment
Reddit is 4chan with account, .world is trying to be reddit 2.0 by it's admins, not a shock.
Come to Finland, safe to walk at night
By "night", you mean the perpetual night in winter?
finland has a homocide rate of about 1 per 100k.
Countries are generally lower than cities, but some cities for context :
Hong Kong : 0.29
Glendale CA : 0.52
Tampere, Finland : 2.2
Arlington TX: 4.8
Los Angeles CA : 10.3
Albequerqe NM : 21.3
Washington DC : 31.85
Flint MI : 70.7
Tijuana MX : 95.9
Maybe I'm too tired or dumb to understand this... But 1 per 100k what? Is this successes per 100k attempts? Is it murderers per 100k people? 1 homicide per 100k human interactions? Maybe a citation would help me to understand the statistic you are referring to. It's not that I don't believe the sentiment of this comment but I really don't know what the figures mean here so I can't meaningfully gauge what each number means for the safety of a city.
Ehh, I'm still scared of it.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251886/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-gender/
For anyone wanting to see murders in USA in 2023
Although statistically, it should be males being afraid to walk home at night.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1388777/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/
A healthy take that will surely result in good faith discussion.
Gross to me that multiple comments here are ignoring this reality. Crimes committed by men against women in situations like that are so common that women aren't protecting themselves unless they consider every unfamiliar man a potential threat.
Obviously women can also commit crimes against men, but its so much less common that I don't have to take precautions to protect myself against them.
As a man it kind of sucks when you are assumed to be dangerous even when you aren't, but you need to get over it. Its not worth it for women to compromise their safety, and assume you to not be a threat just to make you feel better.
Is it really common though? Looking at the generalized US stats its seems that 95%+ of women murdered are by a person they know. Where as for men that stat is 78%. Its pretty rare to get murdered let alone murdered outside on the street. Most* people fear strangers because of news events not because of likelihood.
Random murders just aren't common and random women murders are even less common. Even rape and sexual assault the stats of random attacks on the street are very low. https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend
This is for the US, I'd expect it to be far lower for most other countries.
Obviously women can also commit crimes against men, but its so much less common that I don't have to take precautions to protect myself against them.
Yeah, I've never had second-thoughts about walking past some dangerous-looking women or checking over my shoulder to make sure some woman isn't following me home. This is a regular thing that women deal with, and pretending that the experiences are anywhere close to equivalent is odd.
You don't live in a very dangerous area, then.
I keep an eye on everyone, even a woman with a kid in a pram (assuming the pram isn't just an empty decoy) could try to mug you, people get desperate and chavs get violent. Always keep your head on a swivel, don't trust anyone at face value just because of their gender or what they look like.
Crimes committed by random strangers against women are practically non-existent. Women absolutely need to fear their creepy neighbors or angry ex, as people they know are the actual risks.
you dont need my validation but here it is anyway, thanks for being cool and normal about things so serious as this :)
As a man it kind of sucks when you are assumed to be dangerous
Sorry I didn’t assume you were a pussy. My mistake.
Women are murdered less often than men. It's simply irrational for women to be more afraid of being murdered than men are.
Haha.. You may be right about how often it happens, but no woman is going to feel safe because it rarely happens. Women can get kidnapped or beaten up or raped too... It's not a safe world.
It's not a safe world for guys either but at least we are built to take a few punches without breaking an arm.
Gotta admit, I do love me some murderin'
Don’t criticize if you haven’t murdered yet.
Wow these comments are a trash fire.
That sucks man. I love night walks too, especially through secluded areas and when it's super dark, overcast and windy. There is something very enjoyable and exhilarating about being outside, invisible and unnoticed in a busy world. I feel bad that you don't get to enjoy that.
Men really can't do anything fun anymore 😔
women fear being murdered by men they've rejected and strangers
-- oof ouch owie my male feelings!
There’s not enough education about psychopaths and the dangerous subtypes like dark-triad psychopathy.
I only learned about it in my mid twenties.
If we taught about it there could be prevented a lot of harm.
If you don’t know about it chances are that you always ask yourself „how could someone do This?!“
Simply because they have characteristics that are so far away from your world of feelings and perception of social stuff that you are incapable of understanding it unless you get informed, at least this was my situation.
I disagree. Everyone is free to make their decisions. Whether it is a feeling of good and evil, a philosophical or religious belief or a simple "I don't like jail time" does not matter. Also, there is a very slippery slope of "this guy has an evil mind, better lock him up before he does something".
How is anyone free? You don't pick your genes or parents or where you're born and grow up, which friends you happen to make, or what opportunities come your way in life both for gain and for loss, trauma, abuse. How any of us grow into adulthood as fully functional compassionate human beings seems like a miracle, unless as OC said, you recognize that some people simply are just wired for evil, and need to be treated differently.
Well Picard Manoeuvre has made the odious post, whatever his reasons he now belongs in prison for a long time.
Ah, misandry, my old friend.
On 196 they love pictures of women punching men. But post the opposite and instaban.
Edit: nevermind
Where is the mention of the victim's gender in this meme? If there was a man in a picture, not a woman, do you think the text would be less true? Do you feel comfortable walking somewhere at night when some strange man starts walking up to you? I sure as hell don't despite my possession of a penis.
ITT:
lemmy fans learn Lemmy isn't special
It's ok "The Picard Maneuver" everyone has their shitpost day .... wait where am I again??
This why we can't have nice things
I like to do a fun exercise every time I read something like this.
Swap the word for who you are accusing with some other group. If this make the statement distasteful then the statement is distasteful in it's orginal form.
The Left like to blame men, the right like to blame immigrants so for example: "it's a shame immigrants love to commit murder".
Why is it okay to say men love to murder but not immigrants?
You are 10x more likely to die by falling, car crash or unintentionally poisoned than get murdered.
You are 20x more likely to die by falling, car crash, or unintentionally poisoned than get murdered, as a woman.
Women are actually much less likely to get murdered in general.
Stop villainizing men. This is equally as idiotic as villainizing POC because they have higher crime rates Dont sink to the level of the GOP by generalizing. The unfair alienation of young men is real, and ultimately cost us the election, just so we can feel better than them.
You to the woman taking a cab home after a night at the club: "Ma'am, don't you know you're 20x more likely to die by falling, car crash, or unintentional poisoning than being murdered? Why don't you walk home alone instead of taking the cab?"
I find these numbers intriguing. Where did you get them from?
Unintentional deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm
Homicide statistics https://www.statista.com/statistics/1388777/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-gender/
I dont understand why people are so offended by my comment. Why blame a whole demographic by something committed by 0.02% of them? Why are so people so intent on such blame? It accomplishes less than nothing, it just antagonizes the group you are attempting to reach.
I've been told my whole life, by men, that I can't go out at night alone, because men, but if I say it it's forbidden, because woman. Explain.
Edit: Downvoters cannot explain lmao
While your sentiment that it is not that bad may be true, the numbers you cited mean nothing.
Death by shark is rather unlikely, but swimming in shark waters while bloodied might still be more dangerous than numbers suggest.
We live in the safest time. But also hear of a lot of bad shit happening every day.
Fear of zombies could be at an all time high but that doesn't mean we should implement policies to deal with the risk of zombie invasion.
"She just got raped, beaten and robbed, that totally isn't a murder! Women are safer than men!" sheesh, talk about not making a point....
You're a dumbass. Stop gaslighting women. /A man
Oh cool we're back in ... 2010? and we're doing FBI crime stats discourse again, except this time we're doing the breakdown by gender instead of race.
*if you'll downvote then explain how you're not making the exact same argument lol
The only thing I care about is if Juggalos are still considered a Gang by the FBI.
Regurgitated bear meme is stale
If I said cops are racist, would y'all really think I'm being biased against cops? After all, it's not all cops. 🙄
She forgot to mention the rape actually.
I'm tired of feeling alienated for being male. I'm tired of the default consideration for what a man is being a rapist and a murderer; someone dangerous not to be implicitly trusted; someone you should own a gun to protect yourself from. I'm tired of being labelled a cis man because saying just man would imply that trans men could ever be monsters like us. I go out wearing a skirt and heels and I am trusted, women approach me, give me compliments, ask me for directions. I go out without shaving and am embraced by callousness. If I could ask one thing, if you wouldn't be comfortable using the word "brother," "father," "son," "boyfriend" or "husband," don't use the word "man" or "men." Use another word. A murderer doesn't have to be tied to their gender.
I'm sorry it bothers you like that.
I personally don't feel alienated or attacked at all by the kinds of comments you are describing. When I see a comment like "men murder women", I think of it in the same kind of way comments like "humans are horrible" or "Australians are racist" or "young people have no attention span"... That is to say it describes a trend or someone's perception of a tendency but does not refer to any specific individual.
People aren't saying these things to attack you. They are saying them to communicate their own feelings of being unsafe. And to be frank, feeling that you shouldn't go for a walk at night because it is too dangerous is a pretty serious thing which has obvious negative effects - and the concern is based in reality. It isn't just a perception problem. So we should take these comments seriously - not just complain about the people saying them.
How do you feel when someone says women are whores, Germans are Nazis or Africans are slaves? I feel offended and outraged. I don't care if there are women who work as prostitutes, that most Nazis were Germans and that the trans-atlantic slave trade systematically enslaved a culture group. It's irrelevant. You're discriminating and dehumanising these people. But in these times it's normal to hear men are trash, they're rapists, they murder. So people are numb to it. They don't care about it. They will justify it by insisting men are of a position of privilege. That all men intentionally built a patriarchal society to indulge themselves. The men I know are just people. They want change. They are being alienated and that alienation drives them towards those that actually are the thing people claim men are.
I think you said it well "we should take these comments seriously - not just complain about the people saying them." I just wish people would say it about men.
Imagine if you had to deal with actually being targeted as a minority or woman. You'd be so mad, dude.
I'm a guy who dresses like a girl. I get cat called, threatened to be raped and then called a faggot and thrown into a position where I have to physically defend myself. Yet as you have so eloquently shown people who aren't horny for me, see me as a man first. My privilege is assumed and as such I am not granted the community that the above white woman automatically receives. I am fucking mad. You're looking at injustice passively, like it's my fault.
Where is your fucking anger?
You are not alone in feeling that. Everyone being angry about this in here probably feels the same. And it's incredibly ingenuine to on one hand say this post communicates feelings about fear of going outside and/or men, while simultaneously dismissing feelings of anger at being called a murderer.
My own comment being dismissive of this post (because it's a shitpost, that's the literal community here) was deleted.
Another one where I say "women lie" is being downvoted and it was (softly) implied I'm a murderer for saying this (The comment says "You are the man we are afraid of", context is "men like to murder" as of the OP). The reply and votes to the "women lie" one means people do in fact notice that an overgeneralization hurts. They just don't care if it hurts men. Presumably because "men are murderers" and are thus not allowed a voice besides belittling themselves.
It's just sad.
I made a reply to blind3rdeye where I mirrored some of your sentiments. I have a hard time finding mutual empathy with people. When anyone talks about the unique pain of belonging to certain groups I try my hardest to trust them. I do this because of how much dismissiveness there is of men's issues.
the difference is your generalization isn't based in statistical fact. women who lie about false rape accusations (i assume that's what you're trying to get at here) are such an unfathomably small minority that no man ever has to live their life considering it. by saying that this is something women in do in equivalence to what women are saying men do, you're implying otherwise and implying the authenticity of countless women's experiences with sexual violence at the hands of men is invalid. experiences which are already seldom believed by the people who need to hear it.
on the other hand, a substantial amount of women experience sexual violence from men. it's statistically common enough that women have to live in fear and that conventional wisdom has long held that women should not go out at night alone, carry mace, etc. etc. etc.
bottom line is, it's a false equivalency that serves only to invalidate the reality women must face, and what you're trying to equate it to is that reality. you are harming women by doing this.
it does not harm men to point out what a significant enough amount of them to be dangerous to women at large are doing. you are not personally affected by women saying that men are violent or murderers, but women are personally affected by your exaggerated claims of dishonesty when they speak out against this violence that they are statistically far more likely to experience.
That's why you get a gun (Edit: If you are in a jurisdiction where you can). Practice and be prepared to use. Don't ever hesitate, someone tries to attack you, regardless of gender, they forfeit their right to life.
(Also get pepper spray in case you are in a dangerous situation, but its not enough to warrant a deadly response, then just fucking spray them, and run. If they chase after you, fucking shoot them*)
If you are in a jurisdiction where you can't get a gun, then, I guess the pepper is probably your best bet.
This advice goes for both men and women.
I am not a lawyer. Make sure you check the laws of your jurisdiction first before doing anything.
TLDR: Get pepper spray, and get a gun. Use them in that order.
Edit: *If they chase after you and you have no way of escape, and you have a resonable belief of imminent harm
Edit 2: Btw, the American police will not help you, I don't like violence either, but when nobody is helping you, there is really not other option. I'd love to not have to kill someone if the police is actually helpful (and responds in time)
Just kill some people if you feel threatened. -Americans
Very US defaultism of you.
The thing with carrying a gun is that pulling it out can really escalate a situation quickly, and if you're not experienced enough, it can be turned against you.
That being said, I fucking hate that I can't carry even pepper spray because here you need a permit for it.
If you're going to get a gun just use the gun. If you use yhe pepper spray and then the gun, cops are going to can you* because you shoot someone that was incapacitated
*White men don't need to worry about this.
Maybe ask a lawyer in your area before taking legal advice from lemmy, as both above comments are poor legal advice.
It highly depends on your area, but having OC spray for "normal threats" as they're called is sound advice, it is not legal to shoot people until they become a "deadly threat" (by a jury's decision, not yours) and you're in immanent danger of death or great bodily injury (hospital type stuff).
However, simply "them fighting through the spray" may not be enough without a disparity in force (if he's 6'4" and she's 5'0", if there's multiple attackers, if he's armed with a blunt/sharp instrument or gun, etc) to bump him up to the "deadly" category. If there are other extenuating factors like listed it may be fine. In some areas you have to retreat to the best of your ability and couldn't "just shoot him if he starts chasing you" you'd have to run until it became clear escape was impossible.
Do not take anything I say here as fact for your area either, it is HIGHLY variable is kinda my whole point, look up your local laws before if you're considering buying/carrying a gun, or even for carrying OC spray (illegal in NYC, for instance, and many states have limits on strength, etc).
*White men don’t need to worry about this.
*Rich white men don't need to worry about this
Poor white men aren't exactly safe from this either, pigs are pigs, they fuck everyone over.
Also, if they are still able to chase you, they aren't exactly incapcitated.
What I mean is, in case the person was wearing a mask and had sunglasses that affects the efficacy of pepper spray.
Yup, and as a guy, I am not going home with two women that approach me in a bar after I flash some cash. Know your attackers and keep safe from them.
Edit: wow people misread that. I agree with OP.
Also dress modestly to make sure you don't provoke men with your body.
Go away.
The first part is clearly a joke. I hate that I need to clarify this but you never know with the amount of sexist idiots in this thread
You joke but I do that, I don't want to appear like I have any money, so if I'm going to be out at night I wear my shitty Timex most often instead of the fancy (looking) Nixon, ripped thrifted sweatshirts instead of Supreme (or whatever brand is popular now tbh I'm not a brand guy anyway, but ykwim "clearly nice clothes"), etc. Nobody's robbing the guy who looks like he's about to explain how he just needs $23 to get a bus ticket and if you could just help...
The world would be a better place without us. I feel ashamed for existing.
Stop murdering women and you'll be fine
Well, I am not so...
How is this not bigotry and discrimination toward a group of population?
I've seen the same post in far right groups just changing the word man by some racial slur. Same energy. And also same bigots trying to justify their intolerance with shitty statistics.
How is this not bigotry and discrimination toward a group of population?
I don't know about discrimination but definitely bigotry and stupidity.
Because men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes. Targeting both men and women. Women are just easier targets because they are physically weaker.
lol
lmao, even.
I'm gonna miss being a cis gendered man sometimes.
Yikes. Someone makes a gender based overgeneralization when overwhelming evidence (look at crime stats) proves it incorrect, and those that dare to defend that group get attacked.
Bigotry is bigotry. If you hate a group purely based on their superficial membership, then you are bigoted.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot#%3A%7E%3Atext=noun%2Cgroup)%20with%20hatred%20and%20intolerance
The strongest argument you have is when you compare violence perpetrated by gender. But even then, that doesn't support your argument that all men are evil in some way. And at such low numbers, it's disingenuous deflection b/c even the two summed up don't account for even 1% of the population. Sad that so many of you have brain rot.
Woman: "I and every woman I know have had some really bad experiences with men"
This dude: "Actually, you've had bad experiences with a small minority of men. Why do you hate all men?"
does the post say "all men are murderers"? no, it doesn't. it is however true that a disproportionate amount of men are murderers, especially compared to women, the number of whom that are murderers of men or other women are so statistically low compared to men that it isn't even worthy of consideration.
men, generally, are far more likely to commit acts of violence than women. and the number of men who do, while not the majority, is high enough for women to be afraid of men in general.
under our existing patriarchal social conditions, men are murderers. they're more inclined to violence and present a higher risk than women. saying "men are murderers" doesn't mean "all men including you are murderers" it simply means that the threat is near entirely comprised of men. you should also be aware that we also don't think that this is inherent to being a man but a manifestation of social conditioning under patriarchy that encourages such behavior in men.
lol, i literally point out how your retort is flawed, and you bull head through it anyways.
What's funny but somehow escapes the terminal basement dwellers is that the majority of productive women do not worry about this b/c they understand how stats work. But bigots are never smart enough to even understand basic stats.
Bitch wouldn't be so scared if she had mad bo staff skills... Napoleon tried to show ya'll, but everyone just laughed... Tina you fat lard come and get some dinner!
It's incredible. You guys spent the good part of the last 8 years alienating the male voter
Then you lost the election, in part because of that.
And instead of reconsidering
You guys double down
It's almost admirable, if it weren't for the constant complaining about losing the election.
I mean if you are gonna do this, pushing away half of voters, then don't be surprised you lose against JD Vance in 2028 elections
The stunlock is real, and it keeps on
Why did you bring US politics into discussion?
According to pbs and wikipedia, 4% of the US male population voted for Kamala Harris less compared to women
This could have possibly affected the results of the 2024 US election if those 4% voted for Kamala Harris instead of Donald Trump, but that would ignore the effects of propaganda
First of all, I'm glad you found a way to make this political. Good on you.
Second of all, just like secure straight men don't get violent when they're accused of being gay, there should be no reason upstanding men should take it personally when women voice their concerns about other men.
I don't. Why do you?
they lost because they alienated the anti-genocide voter, not because of you insignificant dorks who take it personally when women express fear in a patriarchal society that's overwhelmingly violent against them. you were never going to vote anything other than chud anyway.
it's normal, or at least it used to be normal and even encouraged by men for women to be cautious about men because men make it dangerous out there. encouraged to carry mace, to only meet men for the first time in public places. for a lot of men this has been a social norm and it's perfectly understood why. the ones who aren't understanding this are the ones that women should be afraid of.
Every male animal that works or lives in close contact with humans has it's testicles removed so it calms down and stops causing problems.
Except the human animal of course, because they're the ones running the show and they'd have issues with removing their balls.
God forbid we have MEN be treated as ordinary people.
Should the government have official eunuchs just like the Chinese did actually
You know we could fix a lot of shit by having trump cut his balls off
You know we could fix a lot of shit by having trump cut his balls off
Not so sure, Hitler only had one. If the correlation goes any direction it seems less balls = more evil, maybe we need to add a few more?
Why are you interpreting this as a personal attack? So fragile
So, at what age are you proposing this to be done? Would you be proposing the reversible version of a vasectomy? Who decides if its allowed to be reversed? Are you advocating for a worldwide birth decline, because most men would rather have the sex without the burden/scare of pregnancy anyway, so if they were forced to do it why would they undo it? Are you prepared for the christian-ethno state to form when the only people having kids will be the ultra-religious who believe in a stupid fucking sky daddy who tells them to have 60 billion children? Did you consider ANY of that before writing this stupid fucking comment that compares getting your cat neutered so he doesnt piss on the Furniture to getting human males neutered so they dont... kill someone in an allyway??
Oh my god you're right. What a fool I've been advocating that we geld humans like farm animals and I never considered the dystopian implications of that. Thank you for showing me the light, brother 🙏
The problem isn't men who love to commit murder but women who love murderers
feminismkills
Edit: /s
Sorry, I thought that's obvious
sometimes we get the sarcasm but the joke just wasn’t funny lol
Fair enough
#feminismkills
True. One evening I was in our living room witth my family when Feminism broke the window and killed my father to the death. 😔
Libtards will make fun of me for this but your father is far from alone: victimsofcommunism.org
Women can’t murder?
Edit, it’s dark and night, how can you tell who’s approaching you? Men and women both murder, you’re worried about being murdered, not “men murdering” sexism works both ways yo.
They can, but you are 7.5 times more likely to be murdered by a man.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251886/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-gender/
oh for fuck's sake you know this is full of shit. just because women are technically physically capable of doing it, that doesn't mean they're statistically an equal threat.
Aww man mad.
Well, yeah. Who is doing the overwhelming majority of the murdering? And why does this fact bother upstanding men at all? Are you not secure in your ability to convince others that you're not a threat? I have no problem with that at all.
Physically, it's impossible for a woman to murder a man. They have tiny hands like Trump.
It's a shame that women molest 13 year old boys.
It's not a contest bro
You got a snort laugh out of me in an otherwise stressful thread. Thanks.
There has to be something seriously wrong with them because they chose to reply like that, scary deflection
Wtf level of misogyny are you on that this is your response
You mean women are also capable of committing crimes? I'm gonna need some more sources for an outlandish take like that.
OP’s take is outlandish. This is just keeping the same energy.
At night on walks!? We are talking about the dangers of walking alone at night. Are 13 year old boys afriad to walk in the park because they will get jumped by pedophiles of the opposite gender?
Men commit more offenses in nearly every single category. Whataboutism isn't going to save you here.
Testosterone is a hell of a drug.
You're part of the problem. You hear that violence from men is too high, and rather than think what you might help do about it or how to avoid adding to that statistic yourself, you feel threatened by it and try to defend yourself with whataboutism.
Ironically, it's probably this kind of emotion immaturity that leads men to violence more. Please, critically engage with these ideas and learn some emotional maturity.
When a female teacher sleeps with a male student it is international news because those are very popular stories that get a lot of clicks (you know why).
When a male teacher does it, it's local news for maybe a week.
This can lead stupid people into thinking there is a endemic problem with female teachers abusing male students, but that's like thinking it's easy to won the lottery because there's always lottery winners in the news.
Two things can be true at the same time.
except the implication kikutwo's trying to get across here isn't true at all. stop entertaining this garbage. one instance of something happen is not equivalent to an immense amount of something else happening.
And you wonder why women feel uncomfortable around you.