4w ago

Those who live outside Europe. What are things Europeans are not ready to hear.

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Many of us I the US want to come there, and we're willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won't be able to until after retirement and that probably won't be until I'm too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn't allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you're already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn't all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
- I'm not sure what you mean is hard? Besides uprooting and establishing a new life in a different culture ofc.
  To my country a travel visa of three months is automatic/not needed from the US.
  A work visa requires proof of employment at a more than minimum wage job, something like a skilled chef, contractor or entry level college grad job qualifies. After two years you can job hop, four years you get a permanent visa, after five you can apply for citizenship.
  Requirements at each of these steps is that you can show you have a valid passport, the means to support yourself (and family) financially, are following laws and regulations, and remember to file the paperwork. No tests, no language requirements, just bureaucracy, patience and making a new life.
  If you're in a high demand profession, a work visa takes 90 days to get and is valid for at least two years.
  This is for my country, you can typically check with the consulate for whatever country you're interested in and they will happily inform you.
  
  Getting a sponsorship to get a work visa in the first place is quite difficult in most EU countries; companies don't want to be on the hook for a foreign worker that doesn't work out for them. In many cases, you need to be able to demonstrate that you can support yourself entirely for a certain number of years before you can even attempt to get some form of permanent residency.
  I'd happily sign up for active duty service in Finland--despite my age--if it meant I could move there permanently.
  
  Is it though?
  We have tons of workers in hospitality on work visas (hotels, tourism, restaurants), we have care staff, doctors, IT professionals, project managers, process managers, engineers, management, PhD students (which is an employment here), finance bros, even life coaches on work visa.
  In my specific country they also take no extra risk other than having to culturally and institutionally train you.
  It's definitely harder than doing things at home, and scarier, but it's entirely doable. In four years we'll see if there's gonna be another US election, regardless you're gonna be 4 years older. Either you stay and hope to weather the US, or you go try building something you've chosen for yourself.
  It's not for everyone, and it's a lot more comfortable being with devil you know. But don't pretend it's because the process is impossible.
  
  I wouldn't want my ability to keep my home to depend on the fleeting whim of a service industry job. And I am a software architect/engineer with nearly 20 years of technical experience. No service industry is going to want me and no company wants to sponsor short term employees.
  The other issue is that in order to get a lot of the visas you can't be in the country, but you have to have a lease or purchased property. Without knowing anyone, that's difficult. I can't afford two homes even temporarily. And I can't afford to break a lease if the visa is denied. If I could go, stay in a long-term hotel for a couple of months, get basic help finding a job just to understand the differences in employment culture, and then get permanent housing and move all my stuff, I know I could thrive. I just can't afford the $4,000/month mortgage for the tiny house I have plus a lease on an apartment in another country.
  Then there's the language barrier. It's not like the US teaches languages to kids, and although I could probably survive with Spanish because I have been studying it on my own for a long time and can communicate basically, it might take me some time to get better at communicating in Spain Spanish vs Latin American Spanish not to mention to pick up the tech jargon.
  There are just a lot of barriers that governments could easily make fairly simple to overcome, but the policies are instead designed to make it difficult.
  
  fleeting whim of a service industry job in Europe means 3 months notice though
- Maybe we can work out a sort of a swap deal? We have all kinds of people believing that the only merit possible is by working late and licking the managers boots. A lot of rightwing nutcases too...
  So which country/ies are you aiming for? The language barrier is one reason why people don't just move around that much inside the EU I guess.
  
  Yes, let's trade...lol
  Language would be a problem, but I could survive with Spanish, so probably Spain. I could learn other Latin or Germanic languages pretty easily though if needed. I know a little Dutch from a job I had that sent me there a few times and Portuguese or Italian is close enough to Spanish that combined with the English similarities I could pick up eventually. But work requires more than a basic grasp of language, especially if I have to start in the service industry or something. So Spain would probably be the quickest.
  The biggest barrier is the requirements for having housing already and having to pay for it while not being in the country while waiting for the Visa. Housing in the US takes half or more of most people's salary. For me it's more and I am a software architect in my late 40s, though I do live on the west coast in a major city which is more expensive. But I don't have a car payment because of public transportation which has allowed me to keep my older cars a lot longer, which doesn't exist in most of the US.
  
  Don't forget english can be something useful in computer jobs, am a cs guy myself and in France its appreciated.
  So how hard is it to get a visa? I mean the rest will follow, just rent a shitty 1 bedroom for starters and work your way forward, as long as you have a job it will work
  
  It's not quite that easy. You need the job and lease first. Finding a job without speaking the language that well is a lot. And honestly, even as someone who makes a moderately high salary compared to the majority in my country, I still am not middle class and don't have the ability to rent an apartment in France and pay up front for health insurance in addition to my mortgage and living costs. The number of work visas are also limited depending on the country.
  And it's risky. What if the job doesn't work out and ends too close to the Visa renewal time to find another. Not to mention you have to leave the country for some time to get the new visa. I'd have to have the ability to move back to the US until I could find new employment while still maintaining the apartment in France or wherever. That might be OK for someone with a big family to support them back home, but most of us don't have that. It's not part of our culture.
  And finally, work visas are a system designed for employers to abuse foreign employees with the threat of being deported if the employer decides not to renew. In most countries (including the US most of which has lax employment laws anyway) the employer doesn't even need to technically fire the employee, just decide not to renew their visa.

658 comments