1mo ago

american culture

194 comments

It's wild that the U.K. doesn't teach the Odyssey, I thought their whole thing was stealing other peoples' culture and pretending they owned it now.
- Shakespeare invented literature, so clearly there’s no value in teaching anything from before him…
  
  You haven't experienced Shakespeare unless you read it in the original klingon.
  
  Fair point.
- Well Greece wasn't ever a British colony, so they didn't have as many opportunities to steal artifacts and culture as they did with, say, Egypt or India
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ancient_Greek_and_Roman_sculptures_in_the_British_Museum
  
  I’m sure they had ample opportunity to steal Greek artefacts from when Greeks invaded Egypt and India.
  
  Also see: the Ionian Islands from 1815 to 1862
- I've heard of Assassin's Creed Odyssey, does that count?
  
  That translation has fallen out of favor with contemporary scholars but you get the gist.
- Just looked it up, the Odyssey can be taught in the UK but it is rarely chosen because Shakespeare is easier to teach and students who pick Shakespeare get better grades on average.
  
  We don't like to brag about it but we fought the Brits in the War of 1812, one of the things we took from England was Greek literature. In turn, we Americans lost the definition of jams vs jelly and the superior spelling of "colour".
  
  Odd that it's a choice between them. We learned Shakespeare and Homer where I am in the US.
- …………..I did the odyssey at various points man I think the guy in the tweet is just Polyphemus or smthn like ‘I don’t know who this nobody guy is, ain’t never heard of no odyssey before bro’
- Is it even taught in the US? 🤔
  I didn't read it for school. I just liked reading and had this gnarly book featuring all the greatest hits of Greek mythology growing up.
  
  I read it for school
  
  Definitely was in the rural, redneck school I went to.
  
  Went to a mediocre high school in the US, and I had an English/writing course where the only materials were the Aeneid, Illiad, Odyssey, and Mythology by Edith Hamilton.
  
  My 10th grade English class studied a small section of it, like one self contained story.
  
  I read both The Illiad and a shortened version of The Odyssey in school.
- Not in secondary school but I did the Illiad, the Anaed, the Odyssey and Ovids Metamorphoses in 6th form college.
- I did study it at school but had to take Classical Civilisation for one of my GCSE options. Our default in English Literature was a Shakespeare work as previously mentioned (Merchant of Venice for me). I also recall studying An Inspector Calls?

When the only Homer they know is Homer Simpson.
- Fun fact: the voice actor for Homer Simpson also voiced Homer (the Greek one) in the Disney Hercules animated series.
- Fox should sue those lazy Greeks for stealing the name.
- Even The Simpsons covered the Odyssey at some point though.

The world doesn't revolve around America, but you'll see idiots in Bumbfuck, Romania talking about Soros and wokeism. It's got to be exhausting.
- Soros is a Hungarian Jew who survived the Holocaust and moved to America afterwards btw, so when someone from the Balkans is complaining about him it's not ignorance, it means something very specific.
  
  Even more of a Nazi dog whistle than when the American right does it? I guess that would make it a Nazi Air Horn
  
  "The Jews are trying to replace us." ?
  Orban / the party in charge were saying Soros was using his money and power to flood Romania with immigrants.
  
  Still exhausting!
- I find that people get more ticked off about the woke in non American countries even if it really doesn't involve them (it should) but even then they increase their hostility because of it

As an American, I am going to dine on this single example as if it disproves the idea that we are insular and provincial hicks for the next decade.
- nah, it just proves that brits are as stupid as you are, which is, tbh, is not a surprise /s
  
  We had Brexit. We can’t say nothing.
  
  The /s is unnecessary, I can assure you we are stupid and nobody should be surprised.
- Certainly stashing it away in the ammo belt.

The problem is, I have this big bag of stones in my glass house, and I want to throw them at the UK for being dumb, but if I do, I also have to admit the US education system is trash.
- I'll throw that stone for you
  The British education system is almost as bad as the American education system. The biggest difference between our cultures is that a lot of Americans are willing to point out how incredibly racist our country is
  
  It's not just slavery minimization. A lot of far right Americans have taken over local school boards to ban books that talk about gay people existing or the fact that sex is something that happens, among other nefarious purposes. And a religious organization in Texas writes pretty much all the textbooks used across the country. It can't be this bad in the UK can it?
  
  So much broken glass, was it worth it? Now I have to go get the broom.
  The amazing part is you somehow broke France and the Netherland's glass too? Just so much to clean up.
- I mean, I have no qualms with recognizing the US education system is garbage... It gives me more fire to try to improve it.
- I can do both. I'm ot gonna let some backwater pit like the UK insult my home, especially since the UK is essentially completely dependent on the US at this point.
- Both can be true. We can be trash in different ways!

To be fair, the only people left on Xitter are idiots
- The world is awash in morons and they aren't localized to that venue, although by way of it's very structure, it's a venue that strongly attracts people incapable of holding two thoughts at the same time.
  As G Carlin would have said, think how stupid the average person is and realize 50% are stupider than that. This is the world we live in - where the trivial thoughts emerging from society's dreck take have equal stage and prominence to expertise and wisdom

$10 says the dipshit in question did a frantic google, saw 'ulysses' and went james joyce.
- Still not American though
  
  Getting closer at least

You haven't experienced The Odyssey until you've read it in its original Klingon.

Liam’s a tool. UK schools absolutely do teach the Odyssey, and have done so at least as far back as my youth.
- most of the time someone says something wasnt taught in school its because that person straight up didnt pay attention in class
  
  I suspect there is significant overlap between the kids who were complaining in math class that what they were learning was useless along with the adults who claim math class didn't teach them "how to do taxes". (As if you do anything other than fill out a form, anyways.)
  
  Wait we were supposed to pay attention in school now it makes sense
- Mine didn't. We did Buddy, The Crucible, Animal Farm and Shakespeare from what I remember. First I heard of the Odyssey was when I was 19 and DW did a retelling of it on Arthur. When I saw a copy of the story in the shop I worked at, I got it so I could read the actual story.
  
  Were you not aware of it at any point? I don’t necessarily mean as part of the GCSE curriculum. I’ve been aware of the Odyssey and the Iliad from the “Ancient Greeks” part of our primary school curriculum back in year 4. Of course we weren’t analysing texts, but I’d expect any ten year old to be capable of rattling off some major plot points like blinding Polyphemus, or sailors plugging their ears with wax against the sirens and tying Odysseus to the mast.

The Illiad and the Odyssey are classics and hardly American culture. They are western culture as a whole. No idea what the drama is about but some dude not knowing what the Odyssey is, is the same as not knowing any other classic. (There are too many to count, but not knowing the most popular ones are is like not knowing the titanic sank.) (Spoilers)
- That's the joke.

I have to admit that I have not read the Illias or the Odyssey in school, either. We were made read books in school intendet to make children shy away from books, so they won't touch any of them after school ever again.
Luckily I had read loads of good books by that time, so I knew that only a few are as horrible as the ones they made us read in school.
- There are basic versions of these stories with big drawings, mostly made for kids. Basically manga. When i was a kid(in Greece), 35 years ago, i had this
  https://www.stratikis.gr/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iliada-nea.jpg
  This is Iliad and it was cooler than Odyssey. Badass dudes with almost divine powers fighting other dudes and entire armies on their own, while Gods are taking sides and fucking things up. Isnt that shonen.
  Odyssey's ending was cool though, even if it was a bit sad.
  
  I first read the classic translation by Schwab when I was ten or eleven.
- It does feel a lot like that, doesn't it? Why else would the Bronte sisters be on the curriculum if not to snuff out any interest in literature?
  
  It could be worse. We read Brecht and Kafka. Several works of them. I've never encountered worse waste of paper and ink than those idiots. And the rest was not much better.
  
  Only boring kids would find Wuthering Heights & Jane Eyre boring. Both books would be excellent choices in any curriculum. If you wanna talk boring early 19th century authors, Jane Austen is the name you're looking for.
- the illias and the odyssey are ancient greek literature, I don't think they're that fun to read.
  But, you still should be taught about their existence in history.
  
  They were more fun to read than the sh-t the forced down our throats in school. At least Homer knew how to write a story.

is this why the miniseries is trending on some torrent sites?? haha!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Odyssey_(1997_miniseries)
- It was also just announced that Christopher Nolan’s next film will be the Odyssey
  
  simpsons did it first
  
  It could be an amazing movie if they follow the story and make it a multi part series.... but also those hollywood assholes cant help but fucking up stories that tell themselves so I expect it to be shit.
- Probably trending because of the musical tbh , it's been pretty popular in some circles.

The Illiad was like the Bible before the Bible.
- Only in that it was widely published but there are others too like the Epic of Gilgamesh.
  
  The Illiad was like the ancient Greek Bible because it was used to provide behavioural guidelines and views common to all Greeks. It was a text central to any Greek's education. How does a leader act? Read the Illiad. How are battles waged? Read the Illiad. What is the relation between humans and gods? Read the Illiad.
  Alexander the Great was known to carry a copy of the Illiad with him at all times, and many philosophers routinely used excerpts from it to illustrate their points. And people would reference it like we reference things from the Bible in the west (Judas, turn water into wine, cross to bear, turn the other cheek etc)
- I have not read the Iliad and I've only read a few excerpts from the Odyssey. They available as an audio book anywhere that isn't Audible?
  
  https://librivox.org/the-iliad-of-homer-by-homer/
  
  If you are going to delve into that, you could also try the book "Circe" by Madelleine Miller. Loved it.
  
  I don't reccomend reading/listening to the original, but reading/listening to one of Steven Fry's books about them.
- Iliad was not a religious text(or even a text for many centuries). It was just a story of a dude trying to get back home.
  
  I know you know this and likely just mistyped, but for clarity, the Iliad is about the war itself. The Odyssey is about the dude trying to get back home.
  They weren't religious texts per se, but they were certainly cultural touchstones which contain important lessons about the human condition, death, love, and what's truly important in life. They would fill a role similar to histories in the Old Testament, probably, like the book of Ruth.

"the world doesn't revolve around your country"country Said the user from UK.
Silly anglophone countries, the world actually revolves around the chad mediterranean

What! He never saw Wishbone’s the Odyssey?
- I was way to old for Wishbone but damn did I stop and watch when that cute fucking dog was on the tv. Anyone who didn't is a heartless bastard.
  
  My dad was watching Wishbone in his 70s. He had a PhD in English and he loved it.

I prefer to watch it in its original Japanese.
- I’m partial to the one set in rural Mississippi during the Great Depression.
  
  Damn, we're in a tight spot.

The American version has more Laser-shark-launching gun-swords though fewer exposed boobs.
- Really not the same without the sirens.

Wait.. some people don't know the Odyssey?
- They don't teach it in my country. I read it on my own.

Just play "Age of Mythology". Duh.

Its not even that great of a mini van. You can get better for cheaper!
- The Honda Odyssey fucks hard
- Like that Kia, right?

...may we see the tweets?
- thankies 💚
- Rude tweets? At this time of year?

Meanwhile on tiktok British people are apparently mad at Americans for not knowing or caring about Robbie Williams

may nigel farage further dumb down the island people.

instead we studied useful things
Have you ever seen any British television quiz game shows? The amount of world geography and history most contestants seem to know is abismal, makes me scratch my head and seriously wonder what many of these people are doing there, in a game show about knowledge. What are they even doing there, in the delusion that they have a shot.
"What is the capital of Denmark?"
"Erm... pass."
This person's comment is just another drop in the bucket in the sorry state of things.

Did "history of the world" not mention Homer?

I'm in Canada.
\ I wasn't taught anything about the Odyssey or Iliad
\ But I at least know that they're ancient and Greek.

The Odyssey is an American epic? Wtf, I love America now!

Most cultured Brit
Reminds me of this: https://www.tiktok.com/@emanrtm/video/7348507560032439585?lang=en

How are you supposed to enjoy the music of Civilisation 7 without knowing The Odyssey?
On a similar note, you'd think the guy on the right would counter with Beowulf
- I learned what it is when I played oddworld: abe's oddysey (and as a bonus I appreciated the deliberate misspelling to insert the word "odd" into the title, which they did again in the sequel, abe's exodus)

Shared this with dome American friends to throw them a bone as they are taking it tight from us on a daily basis

If someone doesn't know, they can check out the EPIC Saga!
- Will it work if I buy it from GOG, these launchers are getting out of hand.
  
  It's a nine-part concept album about the Odyssey: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic:_The_Musical

I am tired of western Cinema jerking off to same old stories, which tbh aren’t the pinnacle of literature or storytelling. There are so many cultural epics which are deserving of the big screen, but unfortunately this western culture bias keeps the general audience from being exposed to any of it.
It wouldn’t matter, but the issue is then you have utter fucking illiterates and philistines who believe that only western writers, thinkers or philosophers came up with anything good. New flash, many, many of the western writers took their influence from non-western sources.
- I mean
  Every culture does that, though? If anything, Americans appreciating the works of the Greeks is as widespread and diverse as a culture can possibly get.
  Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame. Tibetan Monks and the Dali Lama are a huge cultural phenomenon all over the world. Wuxia/Xianxia based on old Taoism writings and diagrams are popular in all forms of media. Period Dramas about the old aristocracy in Asia are a huge genre.
  Koreans shove Korean dragons and Dokaebi into every medium they can.
  Japanese love them some Shinto priestess main characters and Yokai stories.
  Arabia's got thieves guilds, Solomon, and genies and other creatures of fire and wind.
  Russia has Baba Yaga and Rasputin depictions.
  Germany and western Europe have Fairy Tales, northern Europe is obsessed with Trolls.
  India has a strong and proud history of racism, classism, Hinduism, nepotism, sexism, I don't really remember where I was going with this point, tbh.
  Africa... Honestly, Africa might need more time to recover, idk what their cultural epics entail... I do like Shaka Zulu's vibe, tho.
  That's how culture works. The differences and uniqueness make them worth experiencing, and why people work so hard to preserve them in perpetuity across many generations. Except India. Idk y tf they're doing that shit.
  They could all appreciate some other shit, yeah, but that's not how culture works.
  
  fucking crazy to denigrate South Asia like that when you made the effort to respect culture for all the other regions you mentioned. I guess all the other countries you mentioned don't have a history of racism, classism, nepotism, sexism or religion?
  
  Every couple of years Chinese make a new Sun Wukong move, TV show, or videogame.
  Let's not forget that in the same way you can trace a huge amount of things you see in Western stories to the Greek epics and Gilgamesh you can trace a huge amount of things you see in anime/manga to the Journey to the West.
  
  That wasn’t exactly my point. There are examples of Epic tales from other cultures which people often don’t get exposure to because the main focus of western cinema or storytelling is Greek or English.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_folk-epics
  Note that epic tales are a distinct type of genre
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(genre)
  Edit why does it make sense for western cinema or storytelling to talk about other tales from other cultures? It’s just the right thing to do if something preceded you, or your work was influenced by it.
  None of this is a competition as far as I am concerned, the point is just to find great ideas and stories.
  
  This comment serves as a reminder that the normalized hatred directed at India/South Asia on Reddit is alive and well on Lemmy too
- Western media trends towards the myths and legends from western culture? No shit
  I mean, what else would you expect? That’s human nature. Kinda a wild thing to be complaining about
  
  But imagine if African or pre-Columbine American mythologies were used to film movies and series.
  
  I get what you’re saying, but I guess I am just idealistic and expect more from people, like being honest about the sources and influences of their works
  Edit here’s one of the inspirations for Homers odyssey, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh
  Look, I am not saying both of these aren’t great works with their own merits, I am just saying that people aren’t exposed to different things and then live with cultural and racial biases.
- How many movies are there about the Odyssey?
  
  Quite a lot, although older. Not including On Brother, Where Art Thou?
- Western cinema films western stories, internet rando upset.

Fucking Liam

I'm a little mad that Nolan is making the Odyssey. It's gonna be so pretentious and trendy, and I'd be surprised if Anya Taylor Joy, Timothee chalamet and Jeremy Allan White aren't in it, to round it out into the most pretentious movie in history
Edit: Nolan can't film anything but drama. Go watch Batman again and notice how awful the fight scenes are shot and the terrible choreography.
- Yeah, another heavy dramatic saga to wade through. I think I'd prefer a Simon Pegg/Nick Frost adaptation. Or maybe a Matt Stone/Trey Parker version. Something still epic, but also hilarious and full of the vibrancy of humans.
  
  You bring up a point, that in these Greek Epics you do find humor. But Christopher Nolan doesn't know what a sense of humor is
- Anya Taylor Joy would do a great circe imo
  
  She's in everything. She's this year's Jennifer Lawrence, and Jeremy Allan White is Bradley Cooper.

I may be misremembering but didn't the derogative "Chad" start in the UK?
- I think you're thinking of chav

EDIT: I HATE ~~TAYLOR SWIFT~~ GIFS!!!! https://tenor.com/nB52SeZoYP1.gif

Hot Take:
Ulysses > The Odyssey

I never got into geography, tbh. It's not actually that useful for anything.
- In my geography class, we were taught about how weather and climate happens. Geography has as much influence on it as physics. So whenever someone points out why it is so cold if there is global warming, I teach them that warming temperatures fuels warm high pressure areas, which pushes out colder low pressure area. For example, if the American East Coast is experiencing extremely cold temperatures, the other side of the Atlantic would be experiencing warmer but rainy intense storms because the high pressure area is pushing the colder low pressure area to the US East Coast. As you can see, extreme weathers will only get worse because of climate change as the world gets warmer.
  But I think the most practical everyday geography knowledge for people is knowing why the taste of tap water sucks. Just know that areas with limestone bedrocks have water that taste better. Limestone is full of calcium and other minerals, and filters groundwater quite well unlike in areas that have igneous rocks such as basalt or granite.
  I don't want to sound like I'm pontificating but I believe it's important to have as much general knowledge as possible because you never know when those knowledge might have practical utility one day. You don't have to memorise all the knowledge you learn, but it's good if you can keep them at the back of your mind in case they are needed one day. But on the one hand, yeah there are more immediate practical concerns that requires more specific knowledge. Knowing about Jupiter will not fix a pipe leak in your kitchen. It's about having the balance and knowing when to use seemingly useless knowledge, and what knowledge you need to use for more practical cases. Overall though, it's better to have broad knowledge as it makes you more impervious to misinformation.
  
  Well I learned about the atmosphere and ozone in science and chemistry classes and I learned math in Physics, and Meteorology should be a completely distinct subject from just naming municipal districts on a map.
- How would you know if you never got into it? Sounds ignorant to me
  
  Thats fair, but it's not even used for chartering and navigating, so what is it good for?
  To clarify, though, when I say "geography" I'm referring to borders for countries, states, and counties on a large scale. Things like USGS terrain data and coordinate grids aren't included.
- yes it is. you learn how the world works. what gets exported from where. where the refugees come from and to, and why. what conflicts there are, where, and why.
  
  Sounds pretty violent. I hear about refugees pretty well without it, personally. As an analogy, not everyone needs to be a meteorologist to know the weather.

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