Could someone explain this to non-gunowners?
.22lr is a common, low-powered round that can be lethal, but is not quickly or reliably so. For self defense, you want something that will incapacitate your assailant as quickly and reliably as possible. 9mm is usually considered the "sweet spot" for using a handgun to defend against human assailants.
It's bad when a gun doesn't fire when you pull the trigger, but it's FAR WORSE when a gun does fire when you don't pull the trigger. Taurus semi-automatic handguns sometimes fall into the latter category.
The worst I've heard about Hi-Point guns is that they're unergonomic. They're probably the "best of bad options", but I don't have any direct experience with them.
Tbh, it's a little exaggerated though.
Yeah, taurus has a habit of poor quality control, and hipoint is essentially a gamble on whether or not any given trigger pull will do more than exercise your finger, but it's still better than nothing at all. Not better than other more reliable options, but still.
The 22lr bit refers to a very common caliber round. It is, however, a fairly low powered round, and isn't a big bullet at all. Despite that, if you are using a firearm that shoots it reliably, I would argue that it has a place as a defensive round (it definitely has a place in hunting and target shooting).
A lot of what matters if you're shooting under pressure is your ability to hit your target reliably. A 22 isn't going to be a one-hit drop unless you either get lucky or are calm enough to be very precise in your aim (unlikely even if you've trained under pressure, even at the distances that would matter for the statement in the post). But it is still better than many other options that aren't firearms, and it's still better in specific cases where the person may not be able to handle anything with more power.
Firearms are like cameras. The best one is the one you have with you. Should you pick a more capable brand, or caliber? Yeah. But if you're unable to afford or reliably hit a target with other firearm options, and you need a potentially lethal weapon, then you use what you can, and just practice enough with it to maximize its potential.
If anyone passing by has one of those brands, and it's giving you trouble, try different ammo until you hit on one that's reliable in it. Even hipoint cycles some ammo reliably, so you go for what will feed correctly for a full mag.
If you're shopping still, and one of those brands is your only affordable option, try a revolver from taurus. Revolvers are pretty much dummy proof as far as brands go, so the usual issues aren't going to apply.
Don't expect either brand to last for decades of regular shooting, but they'll get the job done short term.
Taurus and Hipoint are bottom of the barrel cheap brands, and 22lr is one of the smallest calibers with very little stopping power.
No, Hi-Point makes the highest quality wares in the world. Everyone knows this. Ah, but they could never match the venerable USFA Zip.
Thanks 💜
Unless you get a clean headshot.
These are the cheapest guns and really are the meaning of 'you get what you pay for' also 22s are more of a vermin round, so while I would consider bigots of any color vermin, you can see many post on the internet of people who have been shot by a 22 and its only like an inch into them. So for stopping power a 22 will not stop anyone if they really mean to do you harm it will only add more sauce.
I am not a gun person, so I could have a lot of this wrong but here is what my cursory understanding is. You want protection for close range, where aiming isnt needed 38 snub nose (as the bullet will go wide of a point past like 20 yards as the barrel isnt that long [the reason its called a snub nose] to really train it) and its small enough to carry in a small bag. This will only give you 6 shots and reloading under duress ISNT going to be easy unless training or other mechanics are with you. So if you only have a small worry or just I wanna be safe, this is going to be peace of mind you will need, and if that peace was needed after all, a 38 round to the main mass of a person will slow or outright stop them (not that you should stop, a lot of laws say if you have the mind to think about it you could have ran, you should pull the trigger till it doesnt go bang any more, or freak out after the first bang and loose it, but this is why you should do SOME shooting somewhere, you dont wanna pull it and then drop it and then the other gains it.) .
You want something with more ammo and more stopping power for more understood levels of bigots. I would say a .45, this gives you a more range of point and shoot and if it really is stacked amount of people it can go thru people into others, at this point you are just giving people understanding death is something they should consider on their end not just their unreal want to give it to others.
As to the second part, you wanna go with a gun maker you have heard of from movies or lawsuits against gunmakers (except highpoint the one aginst them was just for flooding the streets with cheep guns) so like colt, beretta, maverick arms, glock, sig sauer, ruger, and smith and wesson. This is not an end all be all list just the ones I know. If you are going to buy, you should be making two trips, you need to go get an idea of what feels good in your hand for weight and hold. Then you need a day or two and some internetting into is this brand garbage or is there known issues with this model (glocks are like this, they change the resin they use and some times it makes the gun EXTRA loud, I have 2 hand guns and both were more powerful then the glock 9mm and it was twice as loud, like I could feel it in my chest loud). Then now armed with information you can go back take another feel of the gun, make sure it really is what you want (have a second in mind), now also buy two boxes of ammo, you are going to want to shoot one box over the next few days getting you used to the sound, kick, and just over all familiar. The other will be what you need for the gun. Some will say (and its not bad in thought) you should buy a box of ammo each year or even 6 months and use the old one at the range so you keep up your skills. But while its kinda making it your hobby at that point, there is some good info about it so you use the oldest ammo in case it ages and could give you issues when you need it most, but its a hard sell for those that dont even like the thing around.
Lastly you do need to care for it, there is oiling it needs, ask the counter person about it. The revolver only has one oiling point for the most part (three but I have never been told to oil the trigger and hammer) but the actual revolver part might need oiling every so often (again this year cadence comes in, if you fire once a year put a dab of oil at the pin spin it a few times, then wipe and put it back in its case. This will get rid of any gunk that it might have got from being in its bag or carrier you have it in when out and about.) But with the other you are dealing with a lot more moving parts on any magazine fed gun (the ones that have the bullets in a carrier that slots into the handle bottom) you will need to oil the slide and some points inside (again ask the people at the counter, and if you find them stand offish the internet will help you).
One last thing about 9mm, from what I gather they are good at some range, but they go thru like a .45 but they also dont take a chunk out with them, so you will end up just putting holes in them and if its not a vital part they will be able to keep coming. There is also some words for those that might live in a PB area or other militia areas that might think their hate is good and needs to be acted on. If they look to have armor at all, legs, arms and head are the areas you wanna aim for, you have a snub, aim for the groin, you have a 45 aim for a shoulder or groin. The groin will give you lots of big blood carrying areas, you will leave them able to shoot if they can get past the shock and pain, but we are hoping they loose to much blood to do it correctly. Shoulder will take out an arm and lets hope its the one they need. And if you are shaking you could hit the head and this will do what we are hoping for, stopping them to protect yourself.
I hope this helps people, and if I am wrong on some issues please correct this, I just want everyone to feel safe.
I got a Hi-Point .45 carbine and can't make it fail in any way. Weird gun though. Nothing about it is standard, heavy as a brick, forget taking it apart, kicks harder than my .45 pistols, and I'm pretty sure the bolt was cut from 10-pounds of pig iron. Flawless shooting even using remanned, cheapo ammo. All of that is inline with what other owners have to say.
Counterpoint: they're a bad last resort in that they may or may not shoot well (or at all), but in the leadup, where showing you're armed as intimidation, they're as good as any other.
You're not entirely wrong, since in theory these guns can fire and can kill.
However, it should be noted that it's very dangerous to carry a gun that you can't or won't fire, for the purpose of brandishing it. If you encounter someone else that has a gun, brandishing a gun yourself is likely to prompt them to shoot you (and gives them legal cover), when they might not have otherwise done so.
You're right. My use case scenario was pretty far down the 'run, hide, fight' list of options.
Pepper spray would be much higher on my list of reasonable measures. Basically brandishing these would be limited to effectively a last ditch effort.
showing you're armed as intimidation, they're as good as any other.
IANAL BIPONTV
The circumstances of your concealed firearm not being concealed have to amount to "Imminent threat of great bodily harm or loss of life".
Revealing you have a gun, placing your hand on where it is, even "printing" as in it being visible under your clothing, has been considered Brandishing, sometimes a felony and likely a "gun crime".
Specifically, trying to intimidate is very much illegal, so certianly don't put it like that, lol.
Circumstances may get you out of jail, maybe even with your rights intact, but even showing your gun after being chased with a bat has been ruled aggrivated assault.
even showing your gun after being chased with a bat has been ruled aggrivated assault.
As everyone's fave TV lawyer, do you have the case this was pulled from?
As for 'intimidation', yeah. I was (and still am) struggling to find the right word for 'am dangerous and could cause everyone here grievous harm, but wont'.
I wouldn't describe my actions in a self-defense incident as intimidation.
My word choice was a poor fit at best, but i couldn't find the right words.
It's closer to aposematism, but still not quite there.
I've had a titanium Taurus Tracker 627 since way before they stopped making 'em. I've put thousands and thousands of rounds through it, both .357 mag and .38 Special, and other then some minor pitting from foolishly using so many .38s plinking it's been an amazingly reliable weapon. I've said for years that if I ever had to sell off all of my guns but one, that'd be the one I'd keep as it's super light, 4" barrel so easy to carry if I really feel like I need to in the back woods, and reliable.
Anyway, I guess I'm on Team Not All Taurus lol
I'm glade you won the Taurus lottery but the biggest problem with Taurus is they won't fix problem guns.
In my case they just discontinued the model instead 😆
at that point I'd rather use a .25 PCP and get legal automatic AND save my eardrums.
Okay so what do I buy? Guns aren't cool to me and I want one for my camper and one for my house.
This video demonstrates what I'm talking about.
