Anyone running ZFS?
Anyone running ZFS?
At the moment I have my NAS setup as a Proxmox VM with a hardware RAID card handling 6 2TB disks. My VMs are running on NVMEs with the NAS VM handling the data storage with the RAIDed volume passed through to the VM direct in Proxmox. I am running it as a large ext4 partition. Mostly photos, personal docs and a few films. Only I really use it. My desktop and laptop mount it over NFS. I have restic backups running weekly to two external HDDs. It all works pretty well and has for years.
I am now getting ZFS curious. I know I'll need to IT flash the HBA, or get another. I'm guessing it's best to create the zpool in Proxmox and pass that through to the NAS VM? Or would it be better to pass the individual disks through to the VM and manage the zpool from there?
If you want multiple VMs to use the storage on the ZFS pool, better to create it in proxmox rather than passing raw disks thru to the VM.
ZFS is awesome, I wouldn't use anything else now.
What I have now is one VM that has the array volume passed through and the VM exports certain folders for various purposes to other VMs. So for example, my application server VM has read access to the music folder so I can run Emby. Similar thing for photos and shares out to my other PCs etc. This way I can centrally manage permissions, users etc from that one file server VM. I don't fancy managing all that in Proxmox itself. So maybe I just create the zpool in Proxmox, pass that through to the file server VM and keep the management centralised there.
If I recall correctly it’s important to be running ECC memory right?
Otherwise corrupter bites/data can cause file system issues or loss.
I did on proxmox. One thing I didn't know about ZFS, it has a lot of random writes, I believe logs and journaling. I killed 6 SSDs in 6 months. It's a great system - but consumer SSDs can't handle it.
I use a consumer SSD for caching on ZFS now for over 2 years and do not have any issues with it. I have a 54 TB pool with tons of reads and writes and no issue with it.
smart reports 14% used.
Did you have
atimeon?That doesn't sound right. Also random writes don't kill SSDs. Total writes do and you can see how much has been written to an SSD in its SMART values. I've used SSDs for swap memory for years without any breaking. Heavily used swap for running VMs and software builds. Their total bytes written counters were increasing steadily but haven't reached the limit and haven't died despite the sustained random writes load. One was an Intel MacBook onboard SSD. Another was a random Toshiba OEM NVMe. Another was a Samsung OEM NVMe.
better to pass the individual disks through to the VM and manage the zpool from there?
That's what I do.
I like it better this way, because less dependencies.
Proxmox boots from it's own SSD, the VM that provides the NAS lives there, too.
The zpool (consisting of 5 good old harddisks) can be easily plugged somewhere else if needed, and it carries the data of the NAS, but nothing else. I can rebuild the proxmox base, I can reinstall that VM, they all do not affect each other.
Good point. Having a small VM that just needs the HBA passed through sounds like the best idea so far. More portable and less dependencies.
I run proxmox and a trunas VM.
- TrueNAS is on a virt disk on a NVME drive with all the other VMs/LXCs
- I pass the HBA through to TrueNAS with PCI passthrough: 6 disk Raid z2. this is 'vault' and has all my backups of hone dirs and photos etc
- I pass through two HDs as raw disks for bulk storage (of linux ISOs): 2 disk Mirrored zfs
Seems to work well
I use zfs with Proxmox. I have it as a bind mount to Turnkey Fileserver (a default lxc template).
I access everything through NFS (via turnkey Fileserver). Even other VMs just get the NFS added to the fstab file. File transfers happen extremely fast VM to VM, even though it's "network" storage.
This gives me the benefits of zfs, and NFS handles the "what if's", like what if two VMs access the same file at the same time. I don't know exactly what NFS does in that case, but I haven't run into any problems in the past 5+ years.
Another thing that comes to mind is you should make turnkey Fileserver a privileged container, so that file ownership is done through the default user (1000 if I remember correctly). Unprivileged uses wonky UIDs which requires some magic config which you can find in the docs. It works either way, but I chose the privileged route. Others will have different opinions.
I'm running ZFS at two jobs and my homelab.
Terabytes and terabytes. Usually presented to the hypervisor as a lun and managed on the VM itself.
I don't run proxmox, though. Some ldoms, some esx, soon oVirt.
Most NAS VMs want you to pass them the raw device so they can manage ZFS themselves. For every other VM, I have the VM running on ZFS storage that Proxmox uses and manages, and it will manage the datasets for backup, snapshots, etc.
It is definitely the way to go. The ability to snapshot a VM or CT before updates alone is worth it.
Yes we run ZFS. I wouldn't use anything else. It's truly incredible. The only comparable choice is LVMRAID + Btrfs and it still isn't really comparable in ease of use.
Why LVM + BTRFS instead of only using btrfs? Unless you need RAID 5/6, which doesn't work well on btrfs.
Unless you need RAID 5/6, which doesn’t work well on btrfs
Yes. Because they're already using some sort of parity RAID so I assume they'd use RAID in ZFS/Btrfs and as you said, that's not an option for Btrfs. So LVMRAID + Btrfs is the alternative. LVMRAID because it's simpler to use than mdraid + LVM and the implementation is still mdraid under the covers.
both works. Just do not forgot to assign fake serial numbers if you are passing disks. IMHO passing disk will be more performant, or may be just pass HBA controller if other disks are on different controller.
Why fake serial numbers?
to stop guessing what HDD to replace when one failed. VM can't see actual HDDs as SMART is not getting forwarded.
I use ZFS but you need to be very aware of its problems
Learn zpool
ZFS is great, but to take advantage of it's positives you need the right drives, consumer drives get eaten alive as @scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech mentioned and your IO delay will be unbearable. I use Intel enterprise SSDs and have no issues.
Complete nonsense. Enterprise drives are better for reliability if you plan on a ton of writes, but ZFS absolutely does not require them in any way.
Next you'll say it needs ECC RAM
ZFS absolutely does not require them in any way.
Who said it does? Also regarding Proxmox:
https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/consumer-grade-ssds.141190/post-632197
Not sure where you're getting that. Been running ZFS for 5 years now on bottom of the barrel consumer drives - shucked drives and old drives. I have used 7 shucked drives total. One has died during a physical move. The remaining 6 are still in use in my primary server. Oh and the speed is superb. The current RAIDz2 composed of the shucked 6 and 2 IronWolfs does 1.3GB/s sequential reads and write IOPS at 4K in the thousands. Oh and this is all happening on USB in 2x 4-bay USB DAS enclosures.
Could this because it's a RAIDZ-2/3? They will be writing parity as well as data and the usual ZFS checksums. I am running RAID5 at the moment on my HBA card and my limit is definitely the 1Gbit network for file transfers, not the disks. And it's only me that uses this thing, it sits totally idle 90+% of the time.
No idea why you're getting downvoted, it's absolutely correct and it's called out in the official proxmox docs and forums. Proxmox logs and journals directly to the zfs array regularly, to the point of drive destroying amounts of writes.
What exactly are you referring to? ZIL? ARC? L2ARC? And what docs? Have not found that call out in the official docs.