"I WAS going to vote against fascism, but now you've FORCED me to vote for fascism!"
I had a conversation with my conservative neighbor who legitimately made this argument. He was saying that it's the left's fault for telling all these young conservative men that they're Nazis, which makes those poor impressionable young men go "well if you're going to call me a fascist then I'm going to fascist even harder just to spite you."
It does, though. It doesn't have to make sense to you, but it's natural for people to say "who welcomes me? Who attacks me?" And go with those who welcome them. Is it simplistic? Sure. But either you learn how to take on the educational and emotional burden of reaching out, or you have extra enemies.
"And in a way, that makes YOU the fascist!"
Continues becoming even more fascist
I've learned recently that the skinhead movement used to be antiracist and leftist af. Until nazis infiltrated the skinhead punk scene.
Nazis have a rich history of stealing symbols and coopting movements. They're like hateful little magpies who steal any shiny bits of culture they find and take them back to their nests to shit all over them.
Antiracist and leftist is kind of an exaggeration; rather an apolitical subculture of the British working class up until the late 70s/early 80s when the National Front infiltrated the scene. This was during the second wave of the skinhead movement, the original skinheads in the 60s were influenced by West Indian immigrants to the UK, and listened mainly to ska and jamaican music, but generally not very politically conscious or involved. Kind of a rougher offshoot of the mod subculture.
The second wave of skinheads came out of the punk movement. A lot of skins were into Oi!/streetpunk and the NF made their own version which was then called RAC (Rock against communism) but is better known these days (at least in Europe) as White Power Music.
I'm not saying there weren't leftist skinheads (Redskins and Angelic Upstarts would be a good place to start) but as a subculture, the common theme is rather working class identity and pride - which unfortunately, as we've seen, can be exploited by fascist movements as well.
Nazis ruin everything. And we let them.
Nazi punks, FUCK OFF!
Not generally, but:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice
They get angry because even when they try to mask their racism it still clearly shows.
Happy Cakeday! 🍰🎂
While this does get pushed it's important to realize they're pushing it to take in people who feel rejected by liberals and leftists. That's why when there's a question that appears honest it's important to treat it in good faith before assuming they're a conservative troll.
There are people who spend their entire childhood hearing garbage like "black people are more disposed to criminality, because 50% of the prison population is black but only 20% of society is Black." And they just haven't ever been exposed to concepts like over policing. When you just react aggressively right away it can actually push them back into that ideology and then it's really more a matter of the people around them. Humans need community. If political or religious truths are required for membership then they will adopt them.
And yes these same rules apply to someone who grew up hearing the US is an imperialist bully state. This is why diversity in school, the workplace, church, and wherever people congregate is so damn important. We need to see that we aren't devils, that we all want the same thing. (A peaceful existence with enough distractions and the ability to provide for our family)
That's also why extremist ideologues are so hell bent on isolating people. Home schooling, as many church events as possible, sun down towns, church approved summer camp, members only clubs, intolerance of tolerance, etc.
And yes these same rules apply to someone who grew up hearing the US is an imperialist bully state.
I didn't grow up hearing that, but I mean...
I see your point, and I hope I succeed in assuming people are interacting in good faith until shown otherwise most of the time, but at a certain point people also need to be responsible for questioning the narratives they have always accepted without having to be stroked and petted into doing so. (They are both the "party of personal responsibility" and also the "fuck your feelings" party, after all.)
I grew up surrounded by rah rah USA#1 jingoism and a continuous dose of cold war propaganda in almost every bit of media I consumed. (It was the 70s/80s after all) And now I know that the US is an imperialist bully state with a lot of things in its past that folks like to try wishing out of existence rather than willingly examining.
I didn't change a bunch of my opinions because the people I used to disagree with about many (not all) of these and related topics were nice to me about it. The things that have changed have changed because I was willing to consider new information.
Oh there's definitely a difference between being nice and straight up rejecting someone. You can be firm while not sending them on their way. I think the important skill we all need to learn and practice is de-escalation. It's really easy to get into this mode of defending yourself when that was never the point.
Here people often self report with "I'm not racist....but"
Proceeds to spout incredibly offensive and uneducated xenophobic take revealing they've never had a personal relationship with a person of color or other marginalized group
Poor conservatives. Always getting picked on by all those mean normies.
Even South Park touched on that sentiment. Like, how is calling everything racist eventually make one racist? That's the most asinine excuse I've heard to be racist!
"I wasn't racist until someone called me racist!"
No, you are already are a racist, you're just making up excuses to finally show the real you.
Always be projecting. It's the only thing they know.
Twisting their arms to be what they really are.
In a different context: EDIT: And not Related to the main point of the post.
The nazis did have cool uniforms and i think there is something super woke and punk about wearing a version of one where all the symbols are defiled or replaced.
There is a certain something in denying fascist the power to claim an outfit or even such ancient symbol, and liberating fashion. But especially symbolism is easily misunderstood. You need very obvious irony or anti symbolism to pull it off.
I think making marginalised people around you not have to get close enough to check out your emblems before they get the fuck out of your vicinity is orders of magnitude more important than "reclaiming" "cool" uniforms that were never yours to claim in the first place unless you're a Nazi yourself, and aren't really cool at all unless you're in to authoritarianism (and if that's your kink, whatever, but you don't get to inflict fear on to non consenting participants with it).
There are plenty of other uniform like cloths for you to wear, deliberately making yourself look like a Nazi isn't doing positive shit for anyone.
I am not saying i want to don a nazi cosplay, and i did express that in reality this is complicated.
Its more the principle of “i cannot do this” even if i have non offensive intentions, because if i do people will associate it with the bad intentions.
To me this leaves a dirty feeling of them having a super minor grip over creative choices.
Admittedly a lot of this is coming from a core memory of mine where a very young and innocent artistic child had to come to terms that i am not allowed to draw the momentum of windmills.
I love geometry a lot more then i like uniforms, but the same philosophical pattern applies.
Idk, I liked the Black Panther uniforms better.
wrong place bub.
I'm all for reclaiming the toothbrush mustache but this has nothing to do with this thread.
That is incorrect. The SS uniform mentioned in the third panel means their comment has something to do with this thread. It may not be the main point, but it is something.
Just buy a Hugo Boss suit circa 1930s. That’s who designed the nazi uniforms.
That's actually a very cool idea.
Do a proper SS leather jacket but with a defiled swastika all over the back (so no one can mistake it) and reclaim it?
I'd probably not use the red band.
And would this become problematic in a decade when the jackets get normalised and mainstream (probably without the punk defiling)?
It's been done before
I saw a guy wearing an SS uniform but the armband was a rainbow and the SS insignias were all 2 dildos arranged in a 69 pattern once. Probably some more details but that's what I remember after all these years
This was at a gay pride parade before it was federally legalized here and if I recall right he said it was a joke on how many people thought he gay agenda was coming for them
Dude looked good
Some things are forever ruined and that uniform and the swastika are sadly among them, at least in the West.
Harry Du Bois dealing with a huge, union dock worker in his path
I need to finish my racist asshole cop run.
What happened. I'm drunk.
Pygmalian Effect?
Proud boys donning Fred Perry's like they're actual skinheads pisses me off to no end. They got no idea what skinhead culture was all about.
Bullshit, comrade
If that's some kind of dunk because of me being on ml, YSK I'm not a communist. Beyond that, I don't really understand your point, which is fine.
To a fascist, all enemies are communist.
If someone has a flaw and you accuse them of being much worse than it is, it does push them away and make them think that maybe other people who are also getting accused unjustly, making them more willing to listen and get influenced by those people. The probability they get lulled into a bubble becomes much higher. It's why a lot of families that trusted each other have been broken up by politics. This comic had been reposted before but it is also incredibly reductive.
But if you seriously believe those other guys are that bad, just break out into a civil/world war already, there's basically no other way to solve that problem... Maybe the US really should dissolve into multiple nations.
But if you seriously believe those other guys are that bad, just break out into a civil/world war already, there's basically no other way to solve that problem...
That's quite reductive. One can see someone as that bad, but still find them redeemable. But it's a two way street. There needs to be a bit of personal responsibility.
It is reductive, mostly because I'm not capable of considering someone redeemable and irredeemable at the same time. Take your pick. It is a two way street, and you see them as that flawed and they certainly aren't going to cross outside of their bubble, no chance to ever meet on that street.
I don't live in lala land, but then again, I'm not the one seeing all of them that flawed. To me, that's like saying that every member of a cult that went to do something infamous was despicable, it shows zero psychological awareness.
Calling out racism doesn't make me responsible for said racism. That's a really weird take for you to make.
Nobody is being accused unjustly by comparing them to Nazis. If you cannot see the parallels you are ignorant of history. I understand they don't like it.
A lot of families that trusted each other have been broken up by family members deciding to worship a racist demagogue.
