Hyprland is now fully independent!

In other words, Vaxry is so unwilling to compromise or learn from others that he would rather isolate his project from the broader FOSS community. That says a lot about him and the people who support him, especially since this conflict with freedesktop.org started over Vaxry condoning hateful trolling of trans people within the Hyprland community.
This is a problem for me as a Hyprland user because if I share some rice I made or make suggestions for other users, I'm leading people into a community that may be actively hateful towards them. It utterly extinguishes any enthusiasm I have for the project. I like the software but I'd rather be part of a project and a community that I can feel good and excited about. Maybe time to find a new tiling Wayland compositor.
- if I share some rice I made
  FYI: rice is derived from a racist pejorative term. A lot of people in the desktop theming community have stopped using it.
  
  I feel that like idiot, "ricing" is far enough removed from its roots that its fine. Thats just my opinion though
  
  It's so ironic how many downvotes this is getting in the context of this thread.
  
  My partner is Korean, and I asked her if she thought this was racist. She said "it is (technically), but who is getting offended by that?"
  I never used the term in the first place, but if I did, I wouldn't stop saying it because I know about its past.
  I'm fully convinced that anyone who is sincerely offended by that term is looking for something to be offended by.
  I don't waste my time thinking about how "smooth brain" is offensive to people who literally have a smooth brain.
  I don't waste my time dictating to the English; their colloquial term for a "cigarette" is inappropriate nowadays.
  And I don't waste my time replying to comments on Lemmy regarding semantics.
  Oh, wait...
  
  Fair enough
  
  Languages evolve over time. The term "to serve" is derived from the Latin word for "slave". That does not mean it's somehow offensive to use the term to describe the job of soldiers.
  The modern day "riced" comes from "R.I.C.E" which stands for "race inspired car enhancement". If you rice a car, it means you put components that look like race car components but are actually just cosmetic. Fake vents, huge spoilers on family cars, exhausts that are optically bigger, etc. The orange Japanese car in the linked article is an example of that. 70s Japan had renown ricing culture so I guess that's where the R.I.C.E and the racist "rice burner" split.
  Nowadays people who use the term "riced" don't even know that at some point in time it had something to do with Asian cars or bikes. It's even common to jokingly associate it with the food with the same name to spite other car nerds because you can "um actually" bait someone to correct you that it has nothing to do with food. Which is obviously not true according to the article but if 99 % of people don't know the racist origin, it's not an issue at all to use the word.
  
  @drspod @earthwalker
  Nevermind Southeast Asia is powered by their staple rice. USA is powered by corn, gasoline is goosed with corn alcohol so we have corn burners LOL
- Wrong. This was originally technically motivated as hyprland had been limited by wlroots in the past and often had different update cycles from sway causing packaging issues.
  Vaxry never condoned hateful trolling of trans people. In fact, he publicly acknowledged, and apologized for the lack of moderation that lead to the incident, said he would do better, DID better, and THEN after everything had blown over FDO tried to ego butt into his server even more.
  
  I'll quote Vaxry from his blog:
  "Obviously, the fact that I am banned from contributing to Freedesktop - and by extension wlroots, is another big factor, and probably the one that finally tipped the scales, because I am no longer allowed to participate in discussion or contribute code to wlroots."
  https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-wlrootsRewrite
  "I definitely am not a fan of how seemingly weak people online, especially teenagers, have become. Words are just words. Someone calling another person a "retard" shouldn't really be a big deal."
  "I said:
  if I run a discord server around cultivating tomatoes, I should not exclude people based on their political beliefs, unless they use my discord server to spread those views. which means even if they are literally adolf hitler, I shouldn't care, as long as they don't post about gassing people on my server
  that is inclusivity
  Which I definitely stand by."
  https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists

Fuck Hyprland, its developers, and its asshole community. Context: https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html
- The bread and butter for anyone wanting a TLDR:
  The FDO team is right that Hyprland’s community reflects poorly on the Linux desktop community as a whole. Vaxry [the Hyprland Dev] has created a foothold for hate, transphobia, homophobia, bullying, and harassment in the Linux desktop community. We are right to take action to correct this problem.
  
  And on that note, I condemn in the harshest terms the response from communities like /r/linux on the subject. The vile harassment and hate directed at the FDO officer in question is obscene and completely unjustifiable. I don’t care what window manager or desktop environment you use – this kind of behavior is completely uncalled for. I expect better.
  Oh wow. That community is just hateful
- I whole-heartedly agree with this one and I am genuinely not surprised about the behaviour of Vaxry.
  To give some context around this, ThatOneCalculator (aka Kainoa, the person behind Firefish) and I maintained the AUR package for hyprland-git back in 2022. When I initially made the AUR package file, it wasn't great (and there were a lot of points to improve these packages) but it worked mostly. Of course there were edge cases where building broke, especially this was my first bigger AUR package to maintain. With it being a -git package in the AUR, breakage is to be expected.
  Fast forward about a month, a month and a half. Hyprland rolled out some big changes which caused some build errors. But because my personal life got in the way, Kainoa got sick (IIRC) and I had troubles getting the build scripts working again, so it took a few days to get this resolved.
  Vaxry came complaining to comment section of the AUR package "when are you gonna get of your lazy ass and fix this shit" (or something similar to that meaning, I can't find the original comment anymore). After that, I promptly disowned the package and let Vaxry handle it himself.
  Because fuck that shit, as package maintainer, I refused to be treated like this. If you think it takes too long, sure, fine, ask if I need help, offer support, anything. But just don't be an asshole towards people, that offer your software to a wider audience.
- Vaxry (head honcho of hyprland) responds here to Drew's referenced shoutout. Sharing for completeness sake. https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity
  And his response to the FreeDesktop stuff. https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2024-fdo-and-redhat
  
  It seems like the guy is being genuine here. Or was that pure PR?
- Damn, had no idea about this.
- Well I was going to try Hyprland this weekend, but I think instead I will very much not do that.
  I hope someone forks it from a good commit just before they replaced wlroots. I don’t know the specifics of compositor code at all, but I bet It’s going to cost them quite a bit of velocity to maintain their replacement.
  
  I'd say, read Hyprland's responses linked elsewhere in this thread before making any hasty decisions.
  It seems (but I'm not sure, to be clear), that it was a situation that got solved, and people are still hung up on it.
  It's like that "but you fuck one sheep" joke.
  
  Then you might as well not use linux cause if you don't know, you will be in a shock
- I'd recommend river to anyone looking for an alternative wayland dynamic tiling wm.
  
  I'm SO excited for river 0.4.0 as it will bring a massive architectural change which will basically allow people to build their own Window Manager on top of River. Currently, River is a Wayland Compositor with an extensible Layout Generator Process support via a custom protocol. This change will essentially make River into a hyper-extensible Window manager building system which will make it immensely powerful.
  
  While I use river as daily driver and am very happy with it, I feel people who like Hyprland will find river to be rather limited and barren in terms of looks and availability of plugins.
- Any recommendations for a Hyprland refugee? Thinking of trying out niri...
  
  After this news I switched to using KDE with Karousel, an animation plugin, and a rounded corners plugin (kwin scripts).
  I also use a command runner plasmoid to somewhat replicate waybar from shell scripts.
  
  I've been eyeing https://codeberg.org/river/river
  
  That looks awesome! Having used fvwm, I'm a fan of the scrollable desktop
  
  I've been using swayfx, a fork of Sway with a little more eye candy.
  
  River: https://codeberg.org/river/river
  
  I can only recommend niri!
  
  None of the suggestions are even close to how good hyprland is. Like not even a little close.
  
  I like niri, but I'll be damned if I can get any kind of stability out of it. I'll have myself a flawless time at home testing, but as soon as my laptop enters University Grounds it stops launching apps, or crashes, or whatever else.
  Right now I'm using Gnome/PaperWM since Infinite horizontal has changed my workflow so dramatically, and Gnome is more stable for me.
  
  I'm a fan of qtile. Used it when it was x11 only and use it on Wayland now.
- This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.
  Hyprland is incredible and hopefully there won’t be any more trouble like this
  
  This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.
  Because Vaxry didn't like the public backlash, not because he had any moral problems with the conduct. In fact, he doesn't mind genocide:
  
  This was a Discord dumpster fire that was thankfully put out months ago.
  Right, but the original mail from FDO basically said "we know about these examples of bad behavior, we want to notify you that they are definitely unacceptable and we expect to never see something like it again". And Vaxry had a meltdown over that. Among other things, he doesn't get why he should be held accountable for behaviors outside FDO. He has also rejected and commented negatively on the idea of any code of conduct at all for his project. Vaxry is making it as clear as possible that he will make zero commitment to oppose toxicity in his community and people took his word for it. The idea that he was punished solely for a couple of comments that happened years ago and are definitely "fixed" is Vaxry's own misleading interpretation.
  
  I also frequent the discord server often for help with configuring, I have not seen/experienced any of this hatred talked about so much. The worst I've seen is bluntness in delivering a solution or just being ignored because I someone didn't RTFM.
  Hyprland is a wonderful piece of technology and I hope it continues to persist.
- Damn. I only discovered this project a few weeks ago and just started building a config.
  Time to yay -Rcs hyprland.
- Damn why does all the software I want to use end up being developed by bigoted assholes. First nix now this.
- My opinion: let's separate the software and the people making it. If it's great tool and FOSS why not use it? You use software, not people.
  EDIT: I know that FOSS heavily relies on community but also that's the point. I don't see how toxic comminity can progress further while more open minded and kind fork will be a better choice of the same software base.
  
  What if you need to file a bug? What if you have a question on the config that's not easily answered by the docs? If you never, ever find bugs and never, ever have questions, then sure, separate the two. There are genuinely people like that, but they're not common. If you're one of them, then I'm genuinely glad for you.
  My opinion is this: You use software. You don't use people, but you sure as hell rely on them.
  
  Since this change is entirely a result of the bad behavior of the maintainer and would not have happened otherwise, this a perfect example of why we fundamentally cannot separate the work from the people who make it.
  Even if you do not agree with the social backlash this person is getting, that backlash has real effects on the work.
  I, for one, no longer trust that hyprland will remain a well-maintained piece of software given that the maintainer would rather increase their maintenance burden and diverge from using common tools instead of cooperating with the community.
  
  Please note that many users of FOSS are also developers or contributors. Who wants to report a bug or send a patch if the community is worse?
  
  "Let's remove the social element of our social movement"
  Great so what's left at that point, the free value FOSS provides to corporations?
  
  If it’s great tool and FOSS why not use it? You use software, not people.
  I didn't write about its user base, I wrote about its community – the cesspool that engages among each other. That said, the moment someone opens a bug report, there's a real chance that person gets harassed.
  
  The thing about Foss is that it's typically community oriented. You are not only able to contribute and participate, but you're invited to do so.
  And if you're an asshole and your community is toxic then who cares if your code is good? There are other projects I'd rather participate in. Cuz you're not that good.
  
  Would be great, but some people are really strange. Especially bad if you have to let go of the work of some people, because you cant do it on your own.
- People should learn to separate technically impressive projects from the people running them. I'm not going to contribute or financially support the project, but I'm not going to stop using Hyprland because of its creator's views and conduct. With that said, this stuff certainly doesn't spark enthusiasm...
  
  I wrote community, not user base.
- Being a good dev doesn't mean being a good person
  Being a good dev doesn't justify being a bad person either.
  This wm is dead to me.
- Imagine letting yourself get emotional about ghe "asshole community" of a "tiling compositor".
  Anything can get to you if that can.

Does this have something to do with the author being banned from freedesktop?
- Yes
- Partially, it also had strong technical motivations.

People keep saying this happened only because vaxry got banned from the FDO, completely forgetting the fact that hyprland has used their own modified fork of wlroots for ages now. They've wanted to get away from wlroots even before this whole fiasco, it really just tipped the needle for them to finally pull the trigger.
Mind you also, the ban in no way prevents hyprland from using wlroots still. The only thing the ban did was prevent vaxry from contributing to wlroots upstream, which is damn unfortunate if you ask me.
- You believe his "fuck you guys, wlroots sucks anyway" blog post? In that case I have a wonderful bridge for sale that you might be interested in.
  
  I don't need a blog post to know this, considering I've been closely following hyprland since vaxry's first posts about it on reddit over 2 years ago.

Imagine having to rebase your entire project because you're a piece of shit.
- This is the first I've heard of it. What's the deal?
  
  Vaxry, the main dev of Hyprland, got banned from all aspects of freedesktop.org for multiple CoC violations.

Wow! Just like how I moved away from Hyprland. :)
- Your loss lol

Ngl this will blow over in like 2 weeks, FOSS drama has the lifespan of a moth

Well done to Vaxry and co for achieving such a feat! I still think it's completely pointless but at least it will mean that it can now be more easily packaged for other distros, as it avoids the issue with using tagged wlroots.

But why?
- Because Vaxry (the lead dev) got banned from contributing to wlroots or any other FDO projects.
  As for why he was banned, this is the only thing I've read about the whole thing: https://drewdevault.com/2024/04/09/2024-04-09-FDO-conduct-enforcement.html
  Basically, he violated the FDO Code of Conduct when being told that a particular thing he said/enabled in a Discord community would not be acceptable if it was seen in spaces covered by said CoC.
  This appears to be his response.
  
  violated their code of conduct in places where the code of conduct explicitly does not apply is extremely important here. He never once violated code of conduct anywhere that it did apply, and in public spaces was quite respectful, You could for sure find faults with him, but you could find way more faults with most other developers who still actively contribute to projects hosted on FDO.
- Wlroots has a slow development time for features hyprland wants, as well as hyprland having a different release cycle then sway, often causing packaging nightmares.

Watching the discussion here I finally get how it feels like to be a centrist. And it feels dirty.
Anyway, good for them, or whatever. Hyprland was a'ight when I tested it, even if it ain't my thing. Still hoping for a Wayland Compositor that gives an XFCE-type experience (that is to say, UX without Gnome's 'opinionated' weirdness, and without all the fancy effects that Plasma has. Relatively lighter, also looks a bit retro)
- A Wayland Compositor with an XFCE-type experience
  XFCE is working on Wayland support!
  Link: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap
- You may want to look into gnome classic, it comes default with gnome.
  It's not fancy or even popular, but it was made specifically for people like you.
- You can theme plasma and turn the effects off. Why isn't that exactly what you want?

For everyone shitting about Vaxry, I recommend reading both sides of the equation, not only FDO/Drew's.
- Just looked into this drama because I had no idea what the fuck was going on, and MAJOR YIKES
  
  Nice job on not adding nothing relevant other than "(Folks that doesn't like the same stuff as I do) are (buzzwords)." -- you are not better than em.
- Reading his side of it only made me dislike him him more...
- The only defense of Vaxry ever presented was that he was a bigot on his own discord and not freedesktop's. He's a shit bag and he can take his i3 for fascists elsewhere.
- The mail threads and chat screenshots show his side.
- Exactly, vaxry apologized for the lack of moderation and took changes that prevented the incident. to which FDO said, "he we are onto something, we can push our divisive politics here" then got angry when he rightfully told them to fuck off

What would be the advantages of using this over, say i3? (Does it summarize to X vs Wayland)
- The equivalent of i3 on Wayland is Sway; it’s even compatible with i3 config files, it’s a true successor. Hyprland is popular because of the eye candy and its rapid adoption of features which patch over some of the gaps in Wayland functionality. However I think those advantages have become fewer and farther, I personally use sway and if I wanted the visuals I’d use the swayfx fork
- Yes. Also plus eye candy with hyprland. Sway is the i3 experience on Wayland. The official roadmap for i3 is to fall into obscurity as Xorg goes away. They explicitly call out that other things exist for Wayland and adjusting i3 would distract resources from those projects
- Mostly, yes, X vs Wayland. Hyprland also has a lot more eye candy in the way of window animations for snapping, dragging, etc. I find the Hyprland config file simpler too, but that's just me.

I use Mutter

Neat

Seems like a very bad decision
- Why? Hyprland has been limited by wlroots multiple times in the past.
  
  Do you have examples of this? Not being contrarian, I actually run Hyprland myself. I'm just curious where the limitations of wlroots have been.
  
  competing standards
- I think its a good idea not having wlroots everywhere, its important so that people dont just assume every wlroot extension is available
  
  People advocating for Xorg make exactly the opposite argument and wlroots got a home at FDO for a reason. Also, this is not a move away from wlroots on technological grounds, it's because the Hyprland developer got banned because of his behavior.

i was here for systemd round 2

I've got a track for that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdyuKaGQd4

i don't have any stake in this, i'm a fucking xfce user lmao, but man "hyprland" is not a very great name since it immediately makes me think it's a crypto bullshit project..

aiaiaia wasn't fully aware didn't really care, because I don't need #eyecandy but this seems like problem: https://blog.vaxry.net/resource/articleFDO/RHMails.pdf Make up your own mind, folks.
Edit: https://invidious.flokinet.to/watch?v=Lm3gLwyjawQ

- American left-wing values
  Hold up, what? The Overton window of US politics is so skewed to the right that what is usually considered left-wing there is right-wing elsewhere. US left-wing (read right-wing for much of the rest of the world) values are definitely common globally due to American cultural export (read military hegemony and neocolonialism).
- This is just far left acting like how they always act, isolating folks to satisfy their reaching arguments. This does no benefit to FDO. If you ask all these people for any source they will share a 2yr old drew vaults blogpost. They can just go to discord or github and screenshot the alleged "bigoted fascist pos owner and community" but for now they will just stick to making hypothetical scenarios of how they will get harassed for contributing.

Very nice, this comes with a lot of advantages for Hyprland, and I wholeheartedly congratulate Vaxry on separating from the rubbish that is FDO's management.

Wow. Too bad people can't get past themselves and grow together over preferring to hold on to a situation to be enraged about forever. Sorry no apologies accepted ever. I've established a pattern as victim, jury, and judge and my position is rational and not emotional and I will sound off to squash the bigotry as the only way to defeat it is to never move past it.
- Pound sand nerd. The chief operating bigot of hyprland never apologized and chose to rebase their entire wm instead of being normal.
  
  If you bother to read any of the posts you'll see he claims he apologized already and then re-appologized in the post. But that doesn't fit the narrative and since we've all forgotten how to make mistakes and grow from them together why bother even reading the links people share, they just way down your snap judgements that lead to your outrage fix.
  But don't mind me I'm just a random internet person who saw a cool project being posted noticed a bunch of controversy, wanted to see what was reasonable so I waded in and was met with a bunch of people getting high on their outrage.
  Still not decided but certainly not as clear as one side is acting like it is and they seem to just want to stay mad.
  
  He also did create one of the best wayland wm's. So he was never normal.
  
  being normal
  Hey. This is the linux community, there is no nornal. Only insanity

It's free software guys, who gives a fuck about personalities🥱? GFY with pronouns, anger issues, egoistic management..etc
It's the fucking code that determines which makes better software.💪
Hyprland looks cool af🔥, but having a fork of wlroots tied to a wm is not cool.🙄
- So segma 🙏🏻🙏🏻😈😈😈