This is no longer a safe space
This is no longer a safe space
Seeing the liberty hub head mod get chased out because of an honest mistake is pretty fucking disheartening. Liberty hub was one of the only places that was free of the reddit brainworms that infest almost every lemmy instance because of liberty hub's aggressive modding.
All of the people celebrating him being chased out have been banned from liberty hub for very valid reasons, whether they were very argumentative or genocide apologists. Seriously. Look up the modlog of the people actually celebrating it.
I could put up with 196's bullshit by just blocking them and hoping none of their frequent posters wandered into spaces i took part in but the fact that non-voters is still allowed to run when it's very clearly just meant to be a place to post content that's incendiary towards people who hold political beliefs that don't line up with mindgoblin's as a reaction to mindgoblin being banned from liberty hub for being incredibly argumentative is honestly pretty gross.
I'm just gonna pass mod of the comms i manage to someone i can sorta hope to handle it.
I'm too fucking old and not terminally online enough to put up with this, i'm clearly not the target demographic. Good fucking luck
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'd like to take the chance to explain a little bit.
I've had multiple requests to ban LibertyHub from people who see strong left opinions as being trolls or inauthentic. I've refused every time, because I'm not going to remove queer folk from a queer space for genuinely held beliefs over politics that directly impact them.
The same goes for non voters. There are left wing folk who think that voting for a president that encourages genocide is the best option in the limited options available, and they think that pushing back against this president will lead to more harm than encouraging people to support him, and so, they have strong reactions to people who disagree.
Yes, the non voters community was a direct response to liberty hub, because of these two political positions. But it too, is a community run by queer folk, with genuinely held beliefs, and the space is allowed to exist only as long as it does not target specific lemmy users or communities. They can push back against political ideals they disagree with, not against the users or communities professing those ideals. Hexbear has a similar community that doesn't have this limitation, and explicitly dunks on people, not just political ideals, and that was something I wanted to avoid here.
My options are
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Ban politics. This is unrealistic, and unhelpful, given how much politics is impacting our community at the moment
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Enforce a particular political perspective. If I were to choose to moderate in line with my own political perspectives (which are closer to libertyhub than 196 or non voters), it would split the community even further, and fragment queer and gender diverse community on lemmy in to spaces that don't prioritise their needs. I won't have that. We're dealing with enough shit already.
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Allow both groups to exist, and deal with the tension that comes from it. This is the only option that keeps the community in one piece, and able to talk about topics that are directly impacting our lives at the moment. It's also the option that creates the greatest amount of tension from day to day, but unfortunately, I don't have a solution for that.
The obvious, the blatant, absurd obvious option, is to remove MindTraveler becase they have been doing everything in their power to harass and abuse other members of this board. Literally anyone can see that, Ada, and you just keep granting more and more freedom to this person. They've been hounding users in multiple threads, they made an entire community literally dedicated to attacking other people, and you just shrug and move on.
That's the very least you should have done. There's multiple other things as well, but this is the most urgent, the most worrying and - frankly - the one that demonstrates just how incapable of dealing with conflict you are.
At the end of the day, Ada never intended this instance to be explicitly in favor of any particular political view. Its a queer friendly instance first and foremost. Queer people aren't always going to agree on every political subject. Obviously the degree to which room can be made for different political views has it's limits. Fascism and conservativism clearly have no place here, for example, but that's really not what this is about.
Do I think MindTraveller's behavior is abusive and inflammatory? Probably. But whether they should be banned for it isn't my decision, nor is it an easy one when from their point of view LibertyHub is causing active harm to the queer community. I don't agree with that opinion, but they should be allowed to express it in a respectful manner.
I expressed a similar sentiment elsewhere in this thread about Grail.
To be honest, I mostly agree with you about MindTraveller, but I think your criticism of Ada is too harsh.
The obvious, the blatant, absurd obvious option, is to remove MindTraveler becase they have been doing everything in their power to harass and abuse other members of this board.
Please DM me with some links, or report the content harassing other users (rather than their political beliefs)
I'm not American, and I'm not active in liiberty hub, non voters or 196, so I'm not automatically across everything happening on the instance. I rely on reports and communication.
Ada, I disagree with being characterised as a moderate. I'm a soulist, which any terminally online politics geek can tell you is so far to the left that most people think we don't exist. I believe in voting for Biden because I'm concerned about genocide against trans people in the US and Palestinians in the West Bank, both of which a Trump presidency would guarantee. Linkopenschest is playing chicken with fascism against the DNC because he thinks principles are more important than lives, not because he's further left than me or any other member of Non Voters. I don't expect you to repeat that last part because you're committed to impartiality, but please don't call me a moderate. That's just a lie Linkopenschest made up about me.
You believe marxist leninists are moderates, and that socdems are the only real communists calling for revolution.
Either your politics are incomprehensible as a base or you are a fed running an op on leftist spaces.
Nothing you say is to be trusted with how hard you are trying to agitate this space.
It's shocking that people don't see these users as the very obvious trolls they are. People like LoC (and several other usual suspects) literally contribute nothing to any community besides agitation. If you really need a "line" that's where it is. This "radical tolerance" for obvious propaganda and information warfare is honestly disgusting, and compromise safe spaces far more than it preserves them.
I've edited the post.
Honestly Maga believes principles are more important than lives, and until Biden withdrew today, they were winning.
The truth is politics has become so hideously compromised that almost nobody is a "great" candidate anymore, nobody is inspiring. Watching everyone close ranks against Sanders last election solidified that.
I disagree with being characterised as a moderate
You might disagree. But disagreeing doesn't make it true. E.g Pelosi swears she's progressive, but that's not true
Man, shut up. You're so annoying to everyone here. You've caused more drama than anyone else, including the reason why LOC.wav left.
Hey, reading through this thread alone and the drama it surround and I just wanted to say
Thank You.
It's clear you put a lot of time, thought and effort into moderating this instance and that you have to put up with a lot of trying things. It doesn't seem easy and I think you're doing a great job.
I just wanted to make sure it isn't literally thankless.
For real. Ada's always the most level headed person in the room. Exactly what we need in an admin.
Thanks Ada. I'm sorry this place seems to be constantly surrounded by drama.
Hold up, I think I'm confused about some things. I swear I've seen stuff either directly saying "just don't vote" or at least implying it from LibertyHub and LinkOpensChest, but I'm seeing a bunch of people saying the opposite. Am I misunderstanding something?
Criticizing Biden is not the same as advocating against voting. This position is something that LOC has had to defend himself on many times, and one that many don't seem to grasp. If I'm not mistaken, LOC at one point even said he'd vote for Biden when the time came. I don't think any person should have to broadcast their voting plans explicitly to avoid being the target of controversy, but here we are.
It takes a nuanced position to criticize the current establishment for being (at best) complicit in genocide while still recognizing the very real danger of fascism. Many people just see the memes bashing Biden and assume no nuance behind it.
There's a lot of hating on Biden for the things he's done, but, as a member of the community, I don't often see the sentiment that we shouldn't vote for him. And that's mostly in comments anyway. If I had to guess, the general view is "I'm going to vote for Biden and hate doing it".
Linkopenschest is a troll who claims to be left wing, and he's a liar. He spends 5 minutes per month saying to vote for Biden, and 20 hours per month telling everyone that Biden is a horrible person who shouldn't be president. His actions speak louder than his words to those of us who recognise right wing troll tactics. The people telling you he's pro Biden are the marks he has successfully duped.
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I didn't like liberty hub or linkopenschest's politics (my experience with him was him advocating non-voting, but I could have misunderstood what he was trying to say), but what the fuck? Of all the reasons to get outed, this ain't it chief. Like, this is the person who started this all: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/14419145
This person?
Really?
They're basically advocating to gatekeep the LGBT community because, if I understand their argument, they're saying that LGBT people who aren't politically active don't deserve to be part of the community, and that all LGBT gathering places should be political gatherings because being LGBT is political. Motherfucker being LGBT is just something you are. You don't decide to be LGBT. You didn't ask to be born in a world where everyone wants to shit on you. It's entirely reasonable for LGBT people to want places where they can just be themselves and not have to wear their war face.
Furthermore, they accused someone of committing an act of violence toward them for disagreeing with them. Disagreeing with you is not a violent act. You claim you want politics? Well there's your politics. If you don't like it, don't ask for it.
Fucking seriously?
What is going on?
Chased out of town by Someone that writes medium posts analyzing Rick and Morty 😂 Is lemmy going to outreddit reddit?
This might provide further context for why some of this is occurring the way it is
ETA: intentionally instigatory replies aside, people with NPD face challenges dealing with others
"Because of an honest mistake" undersells how absurd this was. What Grail demands is nonsense. They're a self-identified narcissist who wants their gender capitalized... because of claims to divinity. No.
Pronouns only matter here because English uses them to convey gender. Some languages don't. In those languages, pronouns aren't a queer issue. It is impossible to misgender someone by using the same pronoun you use for any other human being. That's why nobody gets to replace you/your.
After reading some of Grail's comments I have a really hard time believing that Grail is not a troll. Treating "wrong" capitalisation as misgendering seems crazy to me.
Unfortunately I have no trouble buying that they're completely serious.
But that sincerity is damn near the only difference between those demands and "attack helicopter" bullshit.
Some people have mistaken the focus on pronoun choice for an invitation to make up whatever they want. Nevermind any discussion of gender - those aren't pronouns. Arbitrary labels are called nouns. A label unique to you is called a name. Pronouns are generic stand-ins for those. Key word: generic. English only has four kinds. Three of them are appropriate for living persons. Take your pick.
If we're going to play what-if and deliberately modify the language, why the fuck would we make it more gendered? Everybody gets a "them." Problem solved. Let's spend our energy finding a second-person plural besides "y'all."
Late last night a few hours after reading that mess of a post, I finally put my finger on what the whole thing reminded me of - "sapiosexuals".
People so in to feeling superior to others that they make it their entire identity, then it's a mental hop skip and a jump from there to making it their "gender/sexual identity" so they can muscle their way under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella to use as their shield and claim they're being oppressed whenever anyone calls them out on their toxic bullshit, which they have categorically never been oppressed for.
Though I'll admit, this specific example seems so completely ridiculous it rings more like the "clovergender" or adding P for Paedophiles to LGBTQIA+ 4chan-style troll attempts created deliberately to harm and discredit the community.
I'm not going to invalidate Grail's experience with Their gender. Outside of western culture, there is actually some history of gender diverse folks being culturally elevated to, or at least associated with, divinity. Grail's gender identity isn't on trial here. Let's not devolve the conversation to exclusionary language about a person's identity. This isn't about whether goddessgender is a queer or trans identity or whether we should respect Their desires when addressing Them.
It's about Grail being an inflammatory troll.
Ableist slur AND denying that the goddessgender person is the gender They identity as AND misgendering a trans person. Cruising for a ban, are we?
Yes, denying the supernatural exists, let alone relates to gender in any way.
No, narcissist is not a slur, especially when someone self-identifies as one.
You are a troll and a shit-stirrer. Welcome to my block list.
This whole thing has been very draining...
If LOC.wav sees this, I hope you're taking some time for yourself, this has to have been absurdly stressful.
I'm incredibly disappointed that the mods have prioritized someone who doesn't seem to have talked much in our communities over the actual users here on blahaj. I don't feel very safe here anymore either.
I deleted my Blahaj account yesterday after Ada deleted my thread calling out MindTraveler's stalking and harassing, as wells the absurdity of Grail's posts without even a second though, not to mention deleting all posts in the other thread for "misgendering". Even in this very thread, MindTraveler is once again harassing people, and they won't stop, because they know Ada won't move a finger to do anything about it. Its not just that: Its the fact that there is zero self-criticism in this place. Its a perfect example of the failure of online queer spaces, especially those were white people are in charge, blind zealots accepting any kind of idea because they're too afraid of telling someone that their beliefs aren't valid.
You were one of my favorite posters here, so your departure only reinforces that my heart was in the right palce.
yeah sampond was right, this place is giving way too much credence to obvious trolls
Personally I never participated in Liberty hub because it felt very toxic, if well moderated. Wasn’t for me. I am sorry that you all have lost this space you valued though.
This sums up my thoughts perfectly.
Hey buddy thanks for the name calling. So these "brainworms" you're talking about, is that some kind of liberal slang for being neurodivergent?
Anyway you're more than welcome to post on !nonvoters@lemmy.blahaj.zone as much as you like. Please share all your opinions about how abstaining from the election is leftist praxis and trying to prevent fascism is liberal.
Can't you see you're making bold assumptions about what other people mean now that you feel like they're on the opposite "side"?
When did this user say they're abstaining? Why did you infer that?
mind goblin deez nuts
I know what brainworms arey but what us Liberty hub?
Libertyhub is/was a fairly far left community on this instance (blahaj, not the one I'm using). Not sure how long it will last now, but it still exists under a different moderator.
By far left, I mean the global use of the term, where it tends to be pretty hard core focused on socialism, anarchism, and similar ideologies. Here in the US, far left is much closer to what other counties would call moderate (at the most generous) in comparison. Also, liberal here in the US doesn't mean the same thing as most of the rest of the world, which is useful to know if you're dealing with the term in leftist spaces.
LibertyHub is an anarchist space with very heavy handed moderation and specific rules intended to promote discussion without the need to explain basic concepts of anarchism constantly. Posting neoliberal or imperialist appologetic viewpoints would get you banned on LibertyHub, so lots of people have stayed mad at their (until very recently) head mod.
My experience on LibertyHub led me to believe it was an enclave of tankies. Somehow, the mod was deposed because they wouldn't refer to someone as a divine being? What the fuck is going on in this instance?