11mo ago

New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist

www.middleeasteye.net

Applicants for German citizenship will be required to explicitly affirm Israel's right to exist under a new citizenship law which came into effect on Tuesday.

The new law shortened the number of years that a person must have lived in Germany in order to obtain a passport, from eight to five years. It will also allow first-generation migrants to be dual citizens.

As part of the shake-up, new questions were added to the country's citizenship test, including about Judaism and Israel's right to exist.

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11mo ago

New German citizens required to affirm Israel's right to exist

www.middleeasteye.net /news/new-germany-citizens-required-affirm-israel-right-exist

88 comments

Considering the German government will do basically anything to get away from even the slightest hint of antisemitism, I can see exactly why they're doing this.
But it's comical for Germany to be bending over backwards to avoid repeating it's genocidal past whilst turning a complete blind eye to an actual ongoing genocide.
- Couldn't agree more
  
  As long as German boomers sleep well at night...
- It’s tragically comical.
- ...and at the same time supporting racist and anti-migrant narratives to "fight" the fascist AfD. Which, obviously, just strengthens that narrative and hence the AfD.

What kinda fascist, authoritarian bullshit is this? I'm seriously considering giving up my German citizenship (I also hold citizenship in another EU country that recognizes Palestine) because of this. Although I would regularly have to go to the consulate for administrative tasks like renewing my ID, it would be worth it.
Edit: I am a firm supporter of a two-state solution, but one of the two states is not interested in that whatsoever. It is the exact state that is ruled by an antidemocratic, fascist, ethno-supremacist government, which is constantly murdering innocent civilians. Israel has a right to the 1947 territory set by the UN. But not a single square centimeter more than that.
So by definition, no, I don't recognize the current form of the Israeli state, which claims the entire Palestinian territory.
- The question doesn't ask if you support the current state of Israel though.
  
  Maybe the last sentence is hard to see because it's under the picture, but I clearly wrote:
  So by definition, no, I don’t recognize the current form of the Israeli state, which claims the entire Palestinian territory.
  I explained the reasoning behind this stance in my previous comment.

If only they did the same with Palestine... That would be even better! Of course, many countries (Germany included) are yet to recognize that country because of reasons (fear included, specially Germany!)
- Why would you assume I have no citizenship "here"? Joke is on you...

Well, this is not creepy or fashy at all
- You are right. It is not.
  
  🤡
- Well, this is not creepy or fashy at all
  
  True. But there doesn’t seem to be any majority who support Zionism, so it’s a stretch to call this your “way of life.”
  
  Hey nothing's more German than genocide amirite?
  
  Buddy just wait till you hear about what happened in Palestine in 1948!

To be honest, countries don't have right to exists countries don't have rights. Rights are inneherently for humans. It's a stupid notion, countries are established by violence and their borders are enforced through violence, it means that Israel or any country has the right to use violence against those whom they judge to threaten their existence. And that includes the population of said country, if the people of country A decides one day to become country B, they can't because country A has a right to exist but not the none-existing country B.
- And that seems to be the crux of this whole mess. We conflate Jews the ethnicity, Jews the religion, Israelis, the Israel state and the Israeli government, and you either accept that the whole package is totally just, or you're an antisemit...

The majority of European antisémites have zero problem with the existence of Israel "out there". They are more than happy to see the Jews leave Europe for the middle east. American antisémites are fantasizing that Israel will be the site of the Second Coming of Christ who will then turn all the Jews into Christians.
This observation alone should tell you everything about why it is stupid and wrong to use attitudes towards Israel as proxy measures for attitudes towards Jews. When the antisémites pass your metric with flying colours whereas Jewish anti-Zionists fail it, your metric is just shit, simple as that.

The intention is good I suppose, but it seems unfair to those who don't believe that nation-states in general have rights that should require our affirmation, even while they have many powers we must respect. Are they also made to affirm the right of Germany to exist? They've made a rule which denies would-be citizens the right to espouse anarchism, which seems like a step in the direction of removing human rights.
- As anarchists refuse the legitimacy of the state in general, they will have no problem to just fake it 😎
- Why would someone tell a government that they hate the government
- Me? I'm not so anarchist that I personally have a problem with pledging allegiance to a flag or whatevs, just anarchist enough that I find it somewhat odd when people assume that everyone is part of "you" and "us" groups of that kind.
  I guess it's just that having to acknowledge the sovereign powers of some country other than the one you're applying for citizenship in is unusual enough to make this sort of weird power to define our views of the world that the modern state has achieved stand out a little more than usual.
  
  You're being Nazis without even realising it.

You know what gives a nation a right to exist? Motherfucking steel.
- ^Has not solved the riddle

All good ideas but what does that actually change? It's just a signature on a paper.
- It sends the message that Germany supports the genocide in Palestine
  
  Are you illiterate or simply stupid? How does that logic follow exactly?
  Acknoledge that a country exists -> Approve actions that a country does.
  ????

The zionists felt threatened again

German clowns

Exist? Okay sure, why not.
Bomb a Population to a pulp? FUCK NO!
And thats why I will NEVER vote for any of these fucks again! My Party won’t make it into the Bundestag? I DON’T CARE! Because the other Party’s won’t represent me anyway, so I can easily vote for my small Party which at least represents me! 💜
- Exist? Okay sure, why not.
  Uh, maybe because they exist on stolen land, taken from Palestinians by force?
  
  Okay, What would be the alternative then? Destroy the State of Israel and drive out Millions of People, guilty and innocent alike, again?
  Would that make this whole situation better? You can't replace injustice with injustice.

This is a good decision. Antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. 4782 antisemitic incidents in 2023, which is 83% more than the year before. 58% of these incidents occured after Oct 7.
- While I don't doubt that more Germans are becoming more antisemitic, promoting zionism does not combat antisemitism. Lord Balfor (of the Balfor Declaration), was extremely antisemitic. He was very explicit about how removing jews from Britain and getting a shiny new colony were both positives.
  But also that statistic is useless because a significant number people arrested in Germany for antisemitism since Oct 7 were Jews protesting against Israel.
  
  That article you linked does not contain anything controversial. No shit, "from the river to the sea" is forbidden in Germany and attending a forbidden demonstration where crimes are conducted has the risk of being detained.
  She was released shortly afterwards but says: “I didn’t think I would get detained for that – I was naive it turns out.”
  Don't act like people end up in prison here for criticizing the state of Israel. People get detained for a couple of hours in the context of demonstrations all the time. Stop derailing, the article from the Qatari news agency you linked does not add anything here.
- These statistic say little as the German police does not properly distinguish between antisemitism and anti-zionism.
  But regardless, if you are so extreme in your views that you can't accept the existence of the state of Israel in some shape or form, you are probably not a good fit for German society.
  
  I'm not sure what you want to imply here. I do not see the benefit in asking the offender why they beat up the Jewish person.
  I cited numbers from a study by RIAS (Wiki, German), this is not from a police statistic.
  The study distinguishes Isreal-related antisemitism, meaning the incidents were directed against the Jewish state of Israel and denied its legitimacy. This kind of antisemitism was 52%.
- I wonder what definition of antisemitism they use
  
  Just to give an orientation: denying Israel's right to exist, i.e. antizionism, including the Slogan: 'From the river to the sea – Palestina shall be free', counts as antisemitism, while criticising the Israeli government for killing civilians does not. Cheering Hamas killing Israeli civilians counts as appreciation of terror and antisemitism.
- "Anti semitism" just means a Zionist doesn't like you

- Yes, I support ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide as long as it’s committed by Israel! Unconditionally. From the river to the sea.
  And I think the German government should be very rigorous in deciding which words and expressions constitute a negation of Israels right to exist.
  For example One State Solution. Or Two State Solution. Or Intifada. Or Nakba. Or Illegal Settlements. Or Illegal Occupation. Or Apartheid. Or Genocide. Or Palestinians. Or Palestine. Or Westbank. Or Gaza.
  Whoever utters one of these words in connection with Israel should have their German citizenship revoked.
  Furthermore, I humbly ask for permission to despise not only Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims and dark-skinned people in general from the bottom of my heart, but also anti-Semitic Jewish traitors who incite hatred against Israeli policy and demand a just solution for the Palestinians. Such as Gideon Levy, Breaking the Silence, Norman Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Ilan Pappé, Avi Shlaim, Max Blumenthal, Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), Simone Zimmerman, Jewish Currents, Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi, Jews for Justice for Palestinians (JJP), IfNotNow, Naomi Klein, Judith Butler, Never Again Action, Independent Jewish Voices (IJV), Neve Gordon, Hiam Bresheeth, Miko Peled, Zach Foster, Andrew Feinstein, Haim Zabner, Miko Peled, Omer Bartov, B'tselem, Rick Perlstein
  /s
- Fuck off
- Wow, i wonder who in the history of Germany also said such thing. Can't remember the name but I'm pretty sure it start with A and end with R.

88 comments