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I think don't deny, is a good start. I mainly just compare equivalences in Western countries to provide context. I think criticising them from the left helps you gain credibility - in the same way that you would criticise other left leaning countries like "nordic socialism". but I do not believe China or DPRK are anywhere close to ideal societies, and I don't think its wrong to be highly critical of them.
in the case of Uyghur camps, I think just admit they are not good and a product of nationalism, but again arguably better than canadian, australian, american and israeli refugee camps and their treatment of indigenous people. see struggle sessions if you want a less biased answer.
kims personality cult isn't really an issue imo - again compare to the wild fucking trump nuts america has if you wanna compare. whitehouse propaganda of trump is 100x crazier than anything made of Kim by the state or people.
my main criticisms for china and dprk are rooted in the obvious corruption in the party that leads to a ruling class that has better material conditions than the working class, and state efforts to shutdown leftwing direct/collective action or unionisation. these are hardly unique to china or the dprk.
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Well people often have extremely different interpretations of whats even happening in Xinjiang. Most mainstream narratives are that theres either a literal genocide or a cultural genocide of Uyghurs as a whole, but virtually all evidence in the area points to this being completely wrong. The idea that Uyghurs as a whole are being oppressed or made their religion illegal or their culture and language destroyed is simply false, this is easily disproven from reports from the area. Then people who think that's false but that people are being forced into camps for "re-education" also vary in what they believe, and theres again not much evidence and a lot of reports from the area that easily disprove the idea that Uyghurs are literally being forced into camps and indoctrinated or whatever. The scale and scope of the programs might be unknown and with how much propaganda and sensationalism has been created around this it can be hard to build a realistic idea of whats really happening, but from what ive seen its largely vocational and job training programs where people just come in every day, not literally forced at gun point or abducted en masse and thrown into cells or something. What is clear is there is a ton of misinformation and obvious lies that have been debunked which aim to create a false narrative, while hundreds of diplomats from dozens of countries have gone in and inspected these things and have concluded these things to be false, while the west continues to fabricate things and international bodies like the UN continue to refuse to actually go in at the request of China.
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Yeah its just important to know your personal conversation with other people is just part of a larger campaign to educate people. All you can do is tell them facts and point them to reports from the area which directly disprove things they think are true. Uyghurs freely practice their culture and religion in Xinjiang, and virtually everything has both Uyghur and Mandarin translations in public. Where is this so called genocide? If they still think there's an Uyghur genocide or whatever i mean you can't do much more, people believed Iraq had WMDs and no matter how much people yelled that this was fabricated and there wasnt any evidence people still ate it up. Imperial media can't be countered effectively across the entire population.
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I get told all this stuff about ICE is exaggerated and that ICE just detains illegal immigrants.
I get told that the Uyghur camps are way worse, and are genocidal extermination camps like Auschwitz etc. whereas the ICE camps aren’t.
well you can't argue with people who are illogical. if you have the same burden of evidence it's pretty obvious which is worse. if you provide coherent arguments here there's not much more you can do to convince the willfully ignorant.
Interestingly I also get a lot of “but the Chinese pollute way worse than we do” when I talk about climate change and pollution with one of my liberal friends from childhood.
Again false on a per capita basis. nationally its largely from the west outsourcing their carbon emissions. super weird thing to be mad about if youre in the west.
the multigenerational rule of one family
what is the clintons, reagans, kennedys, bushs
and the portraits and public crying when one of them dies as evidence of this.
americans have pics of the pres and the flag everywhere and do the same shit when someone dies. i would just bring up vids of fuckwit americans doing the same thing lol. use RBG examples if you wanna own the libs
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99 comments