4d ago

Penn Jillette is No Longer A Libertarian

372 comments

I've always considered myself a libertarian, but I'm coming to realize I need to find another word. I used to be able to explain that assholes were ruining the name, but now the assholes outnumber people like me by too much.
I think the real turning point was when Jo Jorgensen said, "It is not enough to be passively not racist, we must be actively anti-racist," and then she had to walk it back because the libertarian party was so fucking racist. Like, that's not even a political statement. It's a moral one, and it's one I agree with.
Then when the Libertarian Party changed their stance on abortion, I was done with them. I clung to the lowercase L label, but at this point it doesn't seem worth it anymore.
I just think the government should be limited to things that only the government can handle. Policing? Roads? Business regulations? Those are all things that can only be handled by the government. Restrictions on what kind of stove I can buy? Restrictions on what I can put in my body or how I dress or what my kids can read at school? Those are all bullshit.
I guess it helps that I align with Democrats on most of the major issues now, but I still won't consider myself a Democrat.
- Stoves are a great example of why the richest among us want to push libertarianism. You see the freedom to buy a gas stove. They see the freedom to make products that are one penny cheaper but kill their users.
  Libertarianism and anarchism in general fail to account for sociopaths who are willing to make others suffer for their own gain.
  
  Libertarianism and anarchism in general fail to account for sociopaths who are willing to make others suffer for their own gain.
  Yeah this is the main thing keeping me from adopting anarchism in any meaningful way... I like the concept of mutual aid, but I think anarchism itself relies too heavily on the idea that all people are inherently good. I think that the events of the past decade or so have eliminated all doubt for me that this isn't the case.
  
  Don't get me wrong, I think there's useful lessons in anarchism and leftist libertarianism. They aren't bad philosophies, just not workable in a pure state
  
  For sure.
  
  Stoves that kill their users should be a violation of the Harm principle. If this isn't hyperbole then please provide a link to libertarians advocating this — I'm curious to see if/how they've carved an exception or otherwise addressed it or weaseled out of it; please link.
  
  Literally one comment up bud, that I responded to.
  
  You missed the part where moakley mentioned business regulations, and the part where I pluralized libertarians and used the word "advocating".
  Please don't get me wrong — I do want to see links, as it's unlikely you chose those words without seeing a prior scenario or two.
  
  Anarchism accounts for them just fine. The solution is to kick them out of society.
  It's just a damn shame that we've all proven to be cowards and unwilling to do it.
  
  So if we all got together and voted someone out? What if we don't have time? Should we use representatives?
  
  I mean, how is that any qualitatively different than people enforcing stove regulations themselves? They could do it themselves, with enough motivation.
- Conservatives didn't ruin libertarianism. Libertarianism has always been bad.
  Restrictions on what kind of stove I can buy?
  Stuff like this is a perfect example of the issues with libertarian ideology. They want freedom to continue to destroy the environment.
  
  I don't want to destroy the environment. I just like cooking. Surely there are solutions that allow me to still have a nice stove.
  
  "I should be able to have everything exactly the same and it's the others that need to change". Induction stoves work fine.
  
  Yeah, I never said anything like that. That's reductive.
  
  It's not reductive. You think you should be fine with having your gas stove, no matter what. It demonstrates no willingness to compromise to save the planet.
  
  Induction is your friend
  
  No it isn't. I'd be willing to try one, but I think gas is better.
- Libertarianism is just Conservative Lite. They do t want to look like they are associated with the crazy Ultra-Right but still want to participate.
  
  That's not the case for me.
- I’ve always considered myself a libertarian, but I’m coming to realize I need to find another word.
  Other libertarian here. Let me know when you find one.
  Then when the Libertarian Party changed their stance on abortion, I was done with them.
  Oh, that enraged me. How the hell can these mother fuckers claim to be against big government when they support the government literally policing people's bodies?
  I guess it helps that I align with Democrats on most of the major issues now, but I still won’t consider myself a Democrat.
  Same here. Democrats spent too many years telling me I'm "toxic" and "privileged" and treating me as if I'm a problem to be dealt with rather than a human being, plus let's face it, they're fucking pussies with no spine who will never grow balls big enough to stand up to Trump in any meaningful way. The ONLY reason I voted Democrat the last three Presidential elections was because Trump and MAGA were obviously worse.
- That was pretty much my story until a few years ago, but once I moved past the 'us vs them' paradigm, I switched. I'm a Democrat now
- I don't really identify with parties. I just tell people I'm "me".
  
  "I'm not a member of any organized political party; I'm a Democrat."
- I just think the government should be limited to things that only the government can handle.... Business regulations? Those are all things that can only be handled by the government. Restrictions on what kind of stove I can buy? ....Those are all bullshit.
  So the government should be able to regulate what businesses can do, but not what businesses are allowed to sell? Seems legit.

372 comments