34,000 people showed up for Bernie and AOC in Denver

Unless you change how elections work and how politics are funded a new party in the US will always be dead on arrival.

A Bernie - AOC party would face immense hurdles as they lack the infrastructure and the funds the Democratic party has in place. On top of that corporate and oligarchic interests would all make sure to put in enough funding to ensure they will fail.

I love the energy but you have to be realistic. Their best bet would probably be to reform the Democratic Party from the inside.

It either happens in the mid-terms or never. If progressives win big, you have a chance of changing DNC leadership.
Not true. The system suppresses third parties. It doesn't stop them. Parties fall in the US just like everywhere else. When was the last time you spoke to a US whig? Or a Jeffersonian Republican? The system in place when those parties fell was exactly the system we have now. It just takes a massive popular effort and a period of severe political turmoil where the country is heavily divided along party lines and a large portion of the country feels entirely disenfranchised (ideally about a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 split between the two parties and people fed up or greater). Happened at the revolution. Happened at the civil war. Happened at the great depression. Guess where we are now? Don't let yourself fall for the lie that the party is eternal. We're on the knive's edge now. It's time to push
Despite what the media wants us to think, both parties are wildly unpopular with their own voters and are primed for collapse. Literally all of the conditions historically needed for social revolution have been met
- Don't let yourself fall for the lie that the party is eternal.
  Exactly. More people need to let go of the idea that the people cannot affect massive change like this. Of course change will never happen if you don't believe it's possible.
Absolutely agreed. First thing we have to try is to make the party reform themselves. AOC and Bernie have the formula already - the DNC needs a massive push. Like a concerted pressure campaign.
It's not going to be easy but fighting a lawless MAGA with Dems who seem to be stuck in 2012 would be much more difficult. At least now we have some hope because at least these two are out there building the support.
I think this is probably the only time a whole third party could spring up. The heavy handed approach of oligarchs has caused this.
Reforming the party is the same as making a third one because what you're reforming is oligarch interests. Corpo Dems don't want that. That's calling for a party split
Perhaps if they piggybacked some sort of strike movement and/or cooperated with trade unions (plus focused only on a few seats initially)? That's what the Labour party did in the UK.
There are people working on the infrastructure problem now. And if this year with everything going on doesn’t produce interest in the public interest in a third party, nothing ever will. Also, one is whether or not momentum can keep going and if anything would be ready in time by the next election. Two, even if they did win by magic, would the republicans or democrats even work with them once in office? I feel like both sides would sabotage things to make it look like third parties shouldn’t play.
Democrats have been shutting down AOC, no? I feel like reforming the Dems would be a very long road.
So did Trump. None took him seriously.
Many third parties would happily hand them their spot.

I hope you will manage to build an actually-social democrat party.

I think for name recognition and not scaring off Americans who run in fear from the s word, maybe it should be called the Progressive Party?
- Fuck their fear. We need to stop molding our identity around what old conservatives think. The youth aren’t scared of socialism, and they’re the people we need to reach. We need a party that will stand up for us, and that starts by not neutering ourselves to appease our opposition.
  
  Will just getting the youth be enough to win the election though? You need as many voters as possible for that, and to not think strategically and in a way "play the game" then you're already dooming the party to fail.
  If you start a party called "the socialist party" in the US, that would be the easiest attack spot for both parties to go after. Just doesn't make sense to start on your back foot.
  
  The way I see it is, fascists are going to paint their opposition as an extreme enemy no matter what, so why not just be real?
  I'm reaching back into my heart here, but I see no difference between the fascists in charge and the bullies of my past. The day I stopped giving a rat's ass what bullies thought of me, and decided to be myself despite what they said about me, was the day I first made real friends. People respond strongly to integrity, it's just that we haven't seen that much of it from politicians in the past few decades, so it's easy to forget how powerful it is.
  As a country, as voters, and as potential politicians, we need to do the one thing few Democrats have had the guts to do, and make it absolutely crystal clear who we are and what we stand for. People want politicians who aren't the status quo, and who have the strength not to fold just because those in charge don't like it - that's why so many "ordinary" people voted for Trump. Those of us who've stood up to bullies and thrived afterward already know - a lot of people would absolutely agree with us, they're just waiting to hear a strong voice they agree with.
- Progressive Party is pretty good, has a nice ring to it. How about something even more to the point: Tax the Rich party. The entire platform can be built around taxing the billionaires out of existence and rebalancing the power back to the people.
  Tax the Rich as a party name makes it very clear what it’s about, and it gets people saying the thing we need to be doing - so it helps to spread the idea more.
- I don't think the hardest part would be teaching the difference between historical socialism and social democracy, as used in Europe. Social democrat parties in Europe are often just called the "Socialist Party" (ex: France, Spain, with recent elected country leaders) and nobody associates them with the Soviet Union.

All splitting the left would accomplish is assuring Republicans never lose again. It's the inevitable result of a First Past the Post voting system.

The more effective way of doing things is to primary all the corporate Dems and reform the Democratic Party from within. AOC did it in her district and there's no reason it can't work in others.

The Republicans are never going to lose again anyway. I am strongly suspicious of the outcome of the last election; there's enough evidence to warrant at least an independent investigation of the voting software in states with abnormal down-ballot voting. The Democrats no longer have a shred of power to pursue any opposition; they have that up when Kamala walked away from the discrepancies and Biden made no effort to investigate in his remaining time.
I do agree on principle that, with FPTP voting, you need to vote strategically for the least bad person who has any chance of winning. The game has changed, now, though. Republicans have stacked the courts and gerrymandered their states, ensuring no chance to investigate attempts to defraud elections. The Democrat party has been utterly impotent in combating this, and demonstrated an appalling incompetence at ensuring the the system remains incorrupted and uninfluenced by foreign interests. They've actively participated in Corporate influence with Citizens United and the Patriot Act. I voted Hillary, but fuck her for supporting that shit.
If there's a next election, and if there's a party with reasonable polling numbers comparable to the D party, I might vote for them. Otherwise, I'll vote D again.
But: the time to split or reform the party is now. Not at the general election, but now, while there's time to lay the groundwork and build momentum. Because overthrowing a dictator is going to take a lot of momentum, and the D party has none of it.
the old Democrats can get behind the new leftists then. they've shown their cowardice plenty already, they can kowtow to the left instead of the right for once
This is exactly the message. I'm certain that's what AOC's point was.

Now's the best time. Maybe even have a few candidates in for the next election cycle.

not with this level of education and apathy. you make a new party, for everyone who's heard of it, there's going to be a thousand who haven't, and even if they see your name on the ballot and like you they'll just vote dem because they're gonna think that's what they should do.
remember that Google search for "did Biden drop out" peaked on election day, lots of people found out only when they saw the fucking ballot.
- I personally think it's better to do it now than hear people bitching about needing an alternative to the DNC's kingmaker moves during the next election cycle. Just introduce the party and its candidates in some strategically selected districts where progressive policies are being demanded.
it;s been 2 months and look at the damage done. there's no way in 2 years' time that they won't have completely fucked the elections so that they can just overturn the results they don't like 100% legally

Dump first past the post voting! We need non-spoiler alternatives

but which billionaire or world power will fund it??

Yeah that’s definitely what America needs. Another fracture.

two parties do not constitute a political whole.
having only two parties in a democracy is a sign of weakness and sickness in the political system.
political parties representing people are not "fractures".
- What Bernie and AOC are begging of you is not to make the right move, but just to make a move. Get off your ass and run for office, any office, school board, city council, county board, local transit authority, state assembly member, Congress, fucking anything. You don't have to choose the right party, worry about that later, the right choice is to just get out there and start running on your platform. Though they do strongly imply that it would be very, very helpful to primary the centrist, corporate Dems.
  
  Kind of close!
  "not to make the right move, but just to make a move."
  focus in on this part.
- Only two parties is a sign of a First Past the Post voting system and people that understand basic electoral strategy.
  
  incorrect, "patriot"
  
  What a stunning and well thought-out rebuttal.
  
  i hoped you might just be able to follow that. you're welcome.
- It's a sign of corruption and rigging
  
  political parties?
  how?
  
  Having only two parties cycling in power for a century is a sign of corruption and rigging
  
  america has the oldest and worst constitutional system
- I never said they do. I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system when the first priority should be to steady the ship. You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat. Fixing things requires a certain level of stability.
  
  Dems aren't steadying shit, they're taking up space that could be used by someone to do something useful.
  
  Liberals have had over eight years to steady the ship, and they've spent that time alienating marginalized people and progressives and going farther and farther right with afaik no real resistance to trump. They've spent those eight years proving that we can't trust them at all to stop fascism or repair its damage. We should probably be pushing progressive democrats to start a new party with other more left people (though I'd fully expect republicans and the remaining democrats to team up and destroy their campaign so idk)
  
  Problem is the media, and people who take everything it says for granted.
  
  Just in that one comment alone you’ve mentioned the liberals, the marginalised, the progressives, the fascists, the republicans, and the democrats. And that’s why I’m apprehensive that adding another noun in that list is going to make things better… the left needs to consolidate to a new centre for the left, not fracture into another direction that delays consolidation further.
  
  "I just don’t think this is the time to overhaul the whole system"
  how do you contend encouraging political stability overhauling the system?
  "the first priority should be to steady the ship.
  steadying the ship is literally what this protest is about, providing stability while the executive branch is trying to conquer and invalidate the judicial and legislative.branches.
  "You can’t fix things if you’re just struggling to stay afloat."
  yes you can. That's what SOS calls, bilge pumps, pontoons, tar, patches and welds are for, to fix problens on boats.
  you're advocating to give up and sink when you can repair things.
  ridiculous.
  "Fixing things requires a certain level of stability."
  the necessary level of stability is far below what you clearly misunderstand.
  We have that stability, what we need is political, legal and judicial actions liked the ones happening every day now fighting against the executive branch.
  The literal nationwide protests by tens of thousands of citizens, judges, politicians and lawyers constitute that saving grace.
  
  Be me
  Paramedic
  Patient is very sick, circling the drain
  Oh God oh fuck I can't treat them and stabilize them, they're unstable
  
  haha, great example.
  "Sadly, there's nothing we can do. Our training, available equipment, medications and infrastructure are only for stable patients."
  
  Send it BLS next time.
  
  Dude, that's all they ever send.
  
  You vote in Dems, they will just delay the inevitable. You need something more...radical. A leftist Trump.
  
  this article is literally about Bernie Sanders and AOC, the exact opposite force of trump.
  you have the paragons you desire and insist you won't support because of the color of their shirts.
  too many Americans are such laxy defeatists.
  
  See, your lack of reading comprehension is how I know Lemmy is just bots pretending to be human.
  
  you being ignorant of the concepts behind the buzzwords you are blindly repeating reflects poorly on your own lack of understanding, not that of others.
  
  Harris is better than Trump. But they will never give you freedom, they don't want to. You need something more radical, someone who will shove welfare straight up GOP's ass, and who will say "Yes, we are those monsters that we say we are, the boogeymen you tell your children about". And then, simply assert themselves.
  You need a true radical left, one that will tear down everything conservatives find sacred, instead of playing gently with them.
  Then, and ONLY then, will things change.
  
  "Harris is better than Trump."
  ...it's demeaning to Harris to say she's better than a rapist. most violent drug addicts are better than a rapist.
  "But they will never give you freedom, they don't want to."
  I mean, ridiculous.
  I know, it's a cool meme right now, but totally ridiculous.
  "You need something more radical"
  no one brought up Harris until you did .
  I'm backing AOC and Bernie; if you don't recognize their radical political nature, you do not understand the first word of what you're talking about.
  which, I suppose, evident here:
  "Then, and ONLY then, will things change."
  things are changing right now, it sucks. you don't need things to change,, you need things to get better. stop looking for radical Solutions when AOC and Bernie are telling you the very normal everyday solutions that take a lot of work to get done.
  those solutions work, those Solutions are better education funding, universal healthcare, money out of politics.
  it's not fun or a good meme, but those are the real answers and you have two people who are telling you what to do and how to do it if you really care about making things better.
  
  So when is the time? The midterms? The presidential election?
  Reforming the democrats in four easy steps:
  Now's not the time
  Not this year
  This is really a bad time, okay?
  Definitely not this year, are you crazy?
Rather a replacement
- Replacing institutions externally isn’t nearly as easy as rebuilding them internally. A new party in a country where a vast majority votes along traditional family lines is not going to gain any momentum in the time frame that the US needs to correct course. They’re a lot better rebuilding dems internally and keeping the existing external branding. It’s the internet so here’s my uneducated and uninformed opinion: a more progressive offshoot of the Democratic Party external to it only makes sense if the Dems win a few elections on the trot. Otherwise it’s just going to be the same as cutting one’s nose to spite their own face.
  
  The reason we have arrived here is because no one wants to do the hard work of MAKING a functional society. We all do JUST BARELY ENOUGH for it all to not fall apart, do everything the easiest way possible, never mind the results being shit.
  Obviously it would be easier to reorganize the Dems. But it would be poisoned from the beginning.
Right? The two parties we have are doing such a fantastic job representing the people already, why break from the status quo now?
🙄