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Based on that reasoning, I should not show anyone any photo of my child until they were old enough to consent to them being taken.
This is actually solid advice, especially as far as social media is concerned.
We're not talking about social media, we're talking about the significant other of my child. Or even relatives. I didn't get my daughter's permission to take her photo when she was a baby, so I shouldn't have sent a photo to my father on the other side of the country based on this reasoning.
You're (wisely) backpeddling now but you said:
used to torture children in front of their serious romantic partners brought home for the first time.
Things were different when we were kids. It's a fucked up thing to psychologically abuse your (presumably) teenage kids like that and objectively people know that. (Your daughters) consent in the subject is the only thing that matters. The only reason anyone is giving you a pass is because you're FlyingSquid, but maybe leave those pictures in the closet until closer to the wedding.
Oh please. It's not psychological abuse. It's "torture" the same way telling the story about the time they told a lady in the checkout line, "I came out of my mommy's bagina!" when they were three to an adult child's partner is torture.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
Ah yes, because everything is ethical as long as the other party doesn't develop a mental illness because of it
The claim was it caused trauma. That is something that is evidence-based. You are changing the subject.
I'm sorry, you can't have experienced trauma unless you've had someone clinically analyze and diagnose you?
What kind of absurd bar is this?
Can't? No. Has? Let's see some evidence.
You can claim that seeing people in red hats causes trauma. Without evidence, it's just a claim.
People are replying and reporting trauma, you are saying you don't believe them, that its not good enough. Besides the fact its absurd that you think psychology or sociology is even close to solving or understanding nearly any of the topics we are talking about.
When it comes to psychology, self reports are evidence, and you disagreeing with that doesn't change anything.
At this point I beleive flying squid is an actual pedophile
Their comments give me that vibe
One person claimed trauma specifically because I said to find me someone who had trauma because of it. No one else made any such claim.
There is simply no evidence that this is a traumatic experience not matter how much you desperately want it to be.
I experienced trauma from my childhood. It wasn't exclusively the pictures but it was a part of it. And my mom says the same bullshit you are saying now.
But I'm sure you'll just be so in tune with your kid, and have perfect adherence to unassailable morals, so they will make it through this abuse just fine. I don't understand why you are so proud of that fact, but here we are.
And I'm sure you'll say I made this all up for the sake of argument, since that's exactly what you told the first person.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
i literally provided myself as an example in this, i quite literally said that i would consider it a violation of privacy, and no that's not PTSD, but PTSD is the extreme end of things here. We aren't just talking about PTSD.
You claiming that it would give you PTSD is not evidence that anyone has suffered or is suffering from PTSD because of it. That's just you making an assumption about a situation you've apparently never actually faced.
i literally didn't claim that, scroll up to one of my previous comments.
i quite literally said that i would consider it a violation of privacy,
That is what you said.
What you would consider it is irrelevant to what people who have experienced it have considered it.
violation of privacy is often considered to be an extreme form of trauma for most.
That's why it's private.
You really want to show people photos of your kid's nads, don't you?
It's amazing that you got this far into the conversation and, despite my repeated mention of a daughter, you think my baby had testicles. And I never suggested she was anything but cisgendered, so I'm really not sure how you missed that. But based on the rest of your silly question, I have a few guesses.
Okay you give me pedo Vibes now flying squid
Your comments feel like the same one pedos make when they are trying to justify being a pedophile without revealing that they are a pedophile
Again, did you not learn what consent is in school
I've said the same thing myself in other replies to them, it's incredibly slimy how hard they're trying to justify this.
Definitely wouldn't leave them alone around children.
If you believe I am abusing mine and other children, please contact the lemmy.world admin. They have my contact information and can report me to police.
Will you do it?
Lemmy.world is basically reddit V2, with mostly former Reddit admins. From what I've heard about that crowd, they're quite possibly sex offenders themselves.
Ah, I see. You're too bitter to do anything about child pornography and incest when you know for certain someone is doing just that. Would you like contact information for me so you can tell them exactly where to go? I'll give it to you.
Yeah saving it for their long term partners (if you have to) is probably a better idea than showing them during the first meeting.
And please don't dismiss other peoples trauma because you didn't experience it personally, childhood trauma takes many different forms, some we're only just becoming aware of.
I didn't dismiss anyone's trauma, I'm asking if that has ever resulted in anyone's trauma, a parent showing their adult child's partner a picture of them naked as a baby.
I mean if nothing else, not as a "torture," showing the partner the first couple of pictures of the kid as a baby should be acceptable to people just as a "this is what they looked like when it all began" and they don't come out with clothes on. They also are unable to understand the concept of consent, let alone give it.
I would also suggest that if that did cause someone trauma, it would be because the parent was aware this sort of thing would upset their child to that level and did it anyway. I think most parents wouldn't actually show the pictures if they knew it would cause the child real psychological pain, because that isn't the point in doing it. It's usually a form of good-natured ribbing, not malicious.
I didn’t dismiss anyone’s trauma, I’m asking if that has ever resulted in anyone’s trauma
How can I speak for every person? Has it caused someones trauma? Yeah I bet it has. You initially made it sound like you were showing bath pics to every teen-aged first date that came over which would obviously be pretty fucked up.
showing the partner the first couple of pictures of the kid as a baby should be acceptable to people just as a “this is what they looked like when it all began"
Yeah we agree, baby pics are fun, I especially like noting family resemblances as everyone ages. My sister made my mom a big set of scrapbooks/albums for each of her kids one year, no naked baby pics were included. They're great fun to look at, highly recommend.
They also are unable to understand the concept of consent, let alone give it.
This is the primary issue, without even going into the obvious power dynamic between child and parent when it comes to consent later. Where do a childs rights end and parents begin?
I would also suggest that if that did cause someone trauma, it would be because the parent was aware this sort of thing would upset their child to that level and did it anyway.
I would suggest that most parents think they're doing great doing it just like it's always been done (i.e. generational trauma) and "they turned out just fine." but there are definitely some intentionally abusive ones too. The child with the intentionally abusive parent is obviously going to have way more trauma.
I think most parents wouldn’t actually show the pictures if they knew it would cause the child real psychological pain, because that isn’t the point in doing it.
The "real psychological pain" part makes it look like you're dismissing trauma, just because it's not something you experienced doesn't mean it isn't valid and while intent matters so does the result. I'm sure you specifically are a good parent and you're very conscious of your kids mental headspace but by default I'd say save it for the fiance if you just have to have them.
The real psychological pain comes from the realisation that your parent never really cared about your boundaries.
They'll even give your ITR account OTP to someone who will block you out from it and it will be your fault for trusting them with it, but I guess this example is too irrelevant.The teenage years are around the time when children start evaluating their own actions and start having their own personality (which is kinda related to the rebellious stage). They realise the power dynamic between them and their parent which they were until then not conscious about.
It is the parents' actions during this time that determines what their evaluation of the past power dynamic will be and so will be their decision of what relationship they will have with their parents once they are financially independent.So, whether or not the experience is traumatic, your future relationship with your child depends upon how much they care about who sees their pictures.
Just wanted to say that I appreciate the nuanced debate here, and that neither of you resulted in insulting each other after getting to the bottom of it. More of this on Lemmy!
Has it caused someones trauma? Yeah I bet it has.
Cool. Psychology isn't based on your bets.
This is the primary issue, without even going into the obvious power dynamic between child and parent when it comes to consent later. Where do a childs rights end and parents begin?
Again, if we argue that children have to consent to get their photo taken, no one should take any photos of their children below the age where they can do that. That means no baby pictures at all.
The “real psychological pain” part makes it look like you’re dismissing trauma
You have no evidence of this trauma. You're just guessing.
Psychology isn't based on your bets.
Spoken like someone who's never been in therapy or studied psychology, people bet and guess and infer stuff all the time; it's a "soft" science for a reason.
That means no baby pictures at all.
Specifically pictures of their genitals, I feel like no baby genital pics is a good default, yes, what a weird hill to die on.
You have no evidence of this trauma.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
You're just guessing.
Guessing, inferring, surmising, call it whatever helps you sleep at night. I think of it as erring on the side of safety and respect for my kids. Not having pics of their junk doesn't make my life any worse, there's only downsides for them.
Again, babies don't come out with clothes on. The idea of expecting consent for sending grandparents pictures of what their newborn grandchild looked like when it was just a few seconds old is ridiculous.
And yes, psychology is a soft science. That doesn't mean that you personally can claim that people have been traumatized by this without showing any evidence of it just like you can't claim that people have been traumatized by a Luke Skywalker action figure without showing any evidence of it. You can infer whatever you like. Inferences aren't truth and they are based on personal biases.
Suggesting that because psychology is a soft science, you can make whatever claim about trauma you infer is ridiculous. Where did you get your psychology degree from, anyway?