4 independent presidential candidates have filed paperwork to appear on ballot in Wisconsin
MADISON, Wis. -- Four independent presidential candidates have filed signatures and paperwork to appear on the November ballot, the Wisconsin Elections Commission announced Tuesday.
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Gotta dilute that vote in a critical swing state!
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Well you can vote for partial genocide based on really outdated foriegn policy or you can vote for complete genocide that includes all marginalized and minority people inside the US. Take your pick, we have to fix FPTP later, not right fucking now.
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She did address it again at the next rally, to be fair to her. Though I agree the first reaction was... let's call it sub-optimal.
Still, she is in an incredibly tough position here. Not only does she carry the regular US baggage of Israel relation and wanting the strategic position in the middle east - she's also an active member of the current administration. There is a pretty hard limit on how much she can speak out given Biden is still in office, and ceasefire talks are ongoing.
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You do realize there have been many cases of third party candidates being explicitly on the ticket to confuse matters and pull votes from opposition, do you not?
Though admittedly that’s usually with a similar or identical on the ballot name: https://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/2024/06/florida-dem-latest-victim-of-same-name-ballot-confusion-scheme/
First, let’s be clear: voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in, without being accused of ulterior motives. The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight.
The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
By voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party, I am supporting a platform that aligns with my values, particularly on issues like environmental sustainability, social justice, and democratic reform.
The notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
It's hard to feel otherwise when operating under a FPTP system, which is basically intentionally built to shut out third parties. In fact, one of the prominent benefits of FPTP is that it's incredibly difficult for an extremist party to find foothold - as opposed to what is seen all over Europe currently in places with party-list proportional representation.
Whether the third party candidates are naive about their chances, putting themselves out there as an act of protest or intentionally diluting the vote is impossible to say (and I suspect there are some out there in each category).
In the end however intentions don't really matter - the practical impact of third parties in an FPTP system is diluting the vote.
First, let’s be clear: voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in, without being accused of ulterior motives. The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight.
The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
By voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party, I am supporting a platform that aligns with my values, particularly on issues like environmental sustainability, social justice, and democratic reform.
The notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
Thank you!
Speaking the truth! I like it!
we have to fix FPTP later, not right fucking now.
That's been said every fucking election on the last 50 years. Variations of, "Oh no, we need change, but not THIS election. THIS election is too important!"
So guess what? No more waiting.
I'm voting for who I want to win, not because I am scared of who might win. Also, even though this article is about a socialist candidate, I'm personally voting Green Party this year.
You want to get rid of FPTP? Have 3rd parties actually win?
Ignore the presidential race completely. It's literally irrelevant to third parties and you are wasting your breath with a symbolic vote that isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I'm glad it'll make you feel better when the rabid fascists successfully suppress enough other progressive votes to win the rest of the election up and down ballot, and then oopsie you can't vote anymore teehee how'd that happen?
Start at the local level. Campaign for ranked choice voting at the county and state level. Get independents and progressives in at the lower city, county and state wide offices that actually DO have an impact on setting election policy and can build the groundwork that actually lets 3rd parties get a chance. All of this tunnel vision on the high profile presidential race has forever ruined every 3rd party's chance of even existing, because they absolutely refuse to put any kind of effort into the races that matter.
RCV is on the ballot in Oregon for November. I have high hopes it will pass, given our state's general electoral leaning. These kinds of movements have been brewing for all those years you are bitching and moaning about "ohhh but next year" but never get much traction due to hand-wringing about the national bullshit. So shut the hell up and MAKE IT HAPPEN LOCALLY, QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE!
and with that in mind, maybe you should vote for the candidate most likely to support a change to RCV and actually win.
You're arguing with a 2 day old Jill Stein stan who has done nothing but fight leftists since they joined
yes I realized that after typing this comment and i decided i should actually look at their profile lmao
And that persons comment got removed because they are incorrect. And uncivil.
Just because I don't vote for who YOU vote for, doesn't mean I have done "nothing but fight leftists"
And by the way, I started a Socialist community, and a Green community and one for 3 different colleges.
Pretty left.
And if you looked at my profile and noticed those communities, you'd realise that I don't "fight" "leftists."
I stand up for myself in comments, but I'm not "fighting" anyone.
And that person has had several comments removed.
I have not.
You’re arguing with a 2 day old Jill Stein stan who has done nothing but fight leftists since they joined
I've also started 10 communities in that time that range from college communities, to communities about teaching assistants, one about a food replacement shake, and even a socialist community. All in an effort to help build this awesome fediverse and make Lemmy a contender in the social forum arena.
So doing my part by posting and creating content right after I joined up, is a bad thing? Is that what you are implying? Feel free to clarify if I misread your tone.
So curious, how long was I supposed to wait after starting an account, to post things I believe in? What is the time period you are looking for? I mean, we can post on the same day we create an account. Do you think there should be a waiting period?
How long did YOU wait before your first post after you started a Lemmy account?
But you are right about me liking Jill Stein. Just as you are a Biden/Harris stan. Right?!
This account is a forum slider account
I don't know what a forum slider account is. Can you explain?
Ok so let's go over one of many possible examples.
say celebrity A has some dirt turn up and start making the rounds on social media. They usually retain a media management service which employ content farms staffed with media spin people with the express intent of mitigating the reputation harm this dirt is bringing to their client.
The celebrity doesn't know them, the agent doesn't know them, they are employed usually by contract with the social media management company. Both Depp and Heard had armies working for them during the trial and they both were terrible and obvious. If you want real examples go back to old reddit threads on around that time and you can clearly see which are the worst forum sliding offenders and then just start looking for those kinds of posts elsewhere.
There is an old playbook available from any number of places called 'The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies', and they begin to employ the techniques listed there usually to great effect because humans are gullible and self-focused. Modern techniques have expanded upon the techniques listed there to include platform denial, positioning forum actors as mods (reddit has suffered a fucktonne of this since 2015) and even SWATting.
A forum slider's job is to bury the comments that expose the client and amplify the comments that idolize the client, while subtly shifting the conversation through intellectual dishonesty usually framed as 'just asking questions', or concern trolling.
It's not simple to give you a comprehensive understanding because not all forum sliders are paid agents, some are just bored or anarchy driven people that thrive on chaos. But the most visible and effective are paid state actors and social media spin doctors.
I'm not doing any of that tho. I am posting what I believe in. And I'm voting for a party you don't like. That doesn't make me a forum slider. lol
Considering that lots of comments of your are being removed by the mods, I guess you are realizing that this community adheres to the civility rule. And has shown you that I am not a forum slider. Which is why your comments got removed.
I have no idea why you are so angry. I have done nothing to you, and I wish you no ill will. Hopefully since your comments have ben removed, you can realize how uncivil you are being. And I hope that you can learn and grow from it. :)
Start at the local level.
What makes you think I haven't. I totally stumped for my local green party. And the green party has won local elections: Californians have elected 55 of the 226 office-holding Greens nationwide. Other states with high numbers of Green elected officials include Pennsylvania (31), Wisconsin (23), Massachusetts (18) and Maine (17). Maine has the highest per capita number of Green elected officials in the country and the largest Green registration percentage with more than 29,273 Greens comprising 2.95% of the electorate as of November 2006.[68] Madison, Wisconsin is the city with the most Green elected officials (8), followed by Portland, Maine (7).
maybe you should vote for the candidate most likely to support a change
Oh, I am. I'm voting for Jill Stein as president this November. Proudly so. I have the shirt, the bumper stickers, I volunteer. It's awesome.
I have the shirt, the bumper stickers
That's creepy and weird just like how it's creepy and weird with the whole trump cult. It's politics, not some concert for a band
That's creepy and weird just like how it's creepy and weird with the whole trump cult. It's politics, not some concert for a band
So you think all the people who have the Biden, and now Harris stickers and shirts are creepy and weird?
She just talked at a convention and there were thousands wearing Harris shirts.
You think that's creepy and weird?! All those democrats are creepy and weird?
Ok, man, good luck!
Yes, it's creepy and weird. I dgaf what 'side' your on. It's politics, not some fan club. It's all around weird and creepy.
You think you're doing some kinda gotcha thing? Lol add pathetic to the pile just for you
Yes, it’s creepy and weird. I dgaf what ‘side’ your on. It’s politics, not some fan club. It’s all around weird and creepy.
Ok, be sure to tell the thousands of people that wear Biden-Harris shirts that.
You realize that EVERY party has people who like to wear their shirts, right?
Just because you are sick of it doesn't mean FPTP magically has less of an impact on third-party votes this particular election. If you've been around that long you are well aware of how meaningless and potentially dangerous it is, and yes it sucks but the way to combat a two-party system is not voting third party and hoping for the best. Doing that is only creating a mental out for feeling morally superior.
First, let’s be clear: voting is a fundamental American right, and every citizen has the right to vote for the candidate they believe in, without being accused of ulterior motives. The idea that supporting a third party is somehow working for Trump or any other major candidate is both historically inaccurate and logically flawed.
Throughout American history, third parties have played a crucial role in shaping political discourse and pushing important issues into the spotlight.
The abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and labor rights were all advanced by third parties before being adopted by the major parties.
By voting for Jill Stein and the Green Party, I am supporting a platform that aligns with my values, particularly on issues like environmental sustainability, social justice, and democratic reform.
The notion that a vote for a third party “dilutes” the vote is rooted in a fear-driven mentality rather than in democratic principles.
It assumes that votes are owned by the two major parties, which they are not. Our electoral system is supposed to represent the diverse views of the electorate, not just those of the dominant parties.
Just because you are sick of it doesn’t mean FPTP magically has less of an impact on third-party votes this particular election.
Of course not. But I'm practicing the change i wanna see. I'm down listening to you guys keep saying, "next time! Next time, we'll fix it. Promise!"
Nah, fam. No more next times. I'm voting for who I want. And so are my friends.
I don't even know why you're upset tho, Democrats will probably win this year anyway. Hey! So then are you all gonna fix FPTP issue? Hmmmm. if I were a betting man...
If you’ve been around that long you are well aware of how meaningless and potentially dangerous it is,
No, what's dangerous is our system being run by a duopoly. I won't support it anymore. Many of my friends agree.
Doing that is only creating a mental out for feeling morally superior.
If you are worried about it, choose a better democratic candidate. I don't like Harris. And I don't like Trump. Soooo I won't vote for Harris. And I won't vote for Trump. See how that works?
I applaud your frustration at our voting system because I share that frustration, but the whole crux of it is that it results in a two party system. Your green party vote, in the grand scheme of things (at least in terms of making an actual difference), is a wasted one.
I honestly don't know how we will ever make this change. It's going to require people like Joe Biden that are willing to give up tremendous power in order to make a change for the better.
Politicians in general aren't really good at letting go of power. One of our dominant parties especially will never allow this to happen - they cannot even accept the outcome of a fair-ish election (even though they were assisted by their gerrymandering and voter suppression and voter roll purging). It won't be until the US has a very progressive phase that we have a chance of making this change.
Until we can make meaningful changes to enable us to make a change to our voting system, any vote for someone not in one of those two parties will be seen as an attempt to dilute the vote, and will also realistically have people be very suspicious towards you. This is especially the case if one were to post continually to this community and keep pushing the idea.
To recap - fundamental, core changes need to happen first before we have a remote chance of being able to make a difference outside of the two dominant parties. You should, however, vote for who you want, that's your right!
You've got it exactly right here. The big key is that this critical "core change" only happens at the local level. RCV has to be implemented in countywide and statewide election systems, proving that it works, before any third party can hope to effect change and pressure for RCV and reforms at a national House/Senate/President level.
People like OP who bitch and moan about not wanting the two party system and wanting a (wasted) third party in a high profile race like POTUS simultaneously refuse to notice or care that all that change has to start BELOW. You can't just keep your head in the sand for 4 years, then pop up to vote for Jill Stein and expect everything to be hunky dory. You have to be on the beat for every office, even ones as low as ward representatives for your city, trying to support and promote candidates who want to implement RCV and 3rd party independence. Targeting the big race with a no-name candidate is a waste of resources, and always has been.
You can’t just keep your head in the sand for 4 years, then pop up to vote for Jill Stein and expect everything to be hunky dory.
I have supported the green party in my state for a while. Through ballet initiatives and access, to local elections. What makes you think I just pop and vote just in Pres elections?
I've been voting for longer than you have been alive, comrade.
Targeting the big race with a no-name candidate is a waste of resources, and always has been.
And always will be as long as people like you belittle people who are trying to make a change. I'm voting Green Party, as is my right, and I'm proud of it.
I've made donations, I've volunteered for my local Green party, I have my bumper stickers and even my Green Party shirt, friend. And I'll keep working for what I believe in. Even if you're upset that it's not YOUR candidate.
your green party vote, in the grand scheme of things (at least in terms of making an actual difference), is a wasted one.
Voting for who I want, even if YOU don't like that person, is not a wasted vote. If the democrats are so worried about "spoilers," then they need stronger candidates.
I'm voting for who I want to be president. And right now, that's Jill Stein.
You misread my comment. I directly said you should vote for who you want and truly mean that. What I said was that your vote IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE OUTCOME is a wasted vote, and that is a fact that comes with the FPTP voting system.
But since you snapped back with throwing shade at "my candidate" your posts and comments are even more suspicious.
I'll be blocking your spam from here on out. I really do think you should vote for who you want though. It's just not going to make a damn bit of difference in this election.
Ahhh, I checked their post history. This is a 3 day old account with a very nonsensical bio that has done NOTHING but post about 3rd party spoiler candidates since it's inception. The fascists and other various people begging for the collapse of American democracy are sure getting desperate as their Old Don is falling apart.
Astroturfers/ban-evaders/whatever gonna astroturf. Don't waste any more breath beyond what it takes to refute their obvious bad-faith arguements.
I suppose we can take it as a sign that Lemmy is growing that astroturfers, propagandists and trolls are even bothering being active here. And let's not forget Russian operatives I guess, given their track record of promoting their possible asset Jill Stein.
The reason your comment was removed is because you have no evidence for that. Please remember to be civil.
Ahhh, I checked their post history. This is a 3 day old account with a very nonsensical bio
How is my bio nonsensical? What part don't you understand? Is there some Lemmy bio etiquette that I didn't hear about?
I’ve also started 10 communities in that time that range from college communities, to communities about teaching assistants, one about a food replacement shake, and even a socialist community. All in an effort to help build this awesome fediverse and make Lemmy a contender in the social forum arena.
So doing my part by posting and creating content right after I joined up, is a bad thing? Is that what you are implying? Feel free to clarify if I misread your tone.
So curious, how long was I supposed to wait after starting an account, to post things I believe in? What is the time period you are looking for? I mean, we can post on the same day we create an account. Do you think there should be a waiting period?
How long did YOU wait before your first post after you started a Lemmy account?
The fascists and other various people begging for the collapse of American democracy are sure getting desperate as their Old Don is falling apart.
I'm a Green Party/Socialist. That's about as far away from the "Old Don" party as you can get. Just because I am not voting for YOUR party doesn't mean I am a republican.
Astroturfers/ban-evaders/whatever gonna astroturf.
And I have never evaded a ban on here at all. And I am reporting you for breaking the rule of civility and falsely accusing me of being a ban evader.
I directly said you should vote for who you want and truly mean that.
I will. And it's Jill Stein
is a wasted vote
Not wasted at all, because I am voting for who I want to vote for. As is my right.
I’ll be blocking your spam from here on out.
Spam? I don't think that word means what you think it means. But yes, feel free to block me, because you haven't changed my mind. At all.
If you are that worried about spoilers, then you should have a stronger candidate. I, and many others, don't support her. That's how democracy works.
I don't think this is a legitimate argument anymore, the only people I see using it are bots, shills, and the easily manipulated.
There is no possible multiverse in all of existence where drumpf is the candidate less supportive of genocide in Palestine.
Anyone with understanding enough to articulate your point also knows that there will never be a 3rd party candidate until we get rid of first past the post voting.
I am supportive of the Green Party, and I will be voting Green Party. The reason your comment was removed is because you are unfairly attacking me. Please be civil in your comments. You don't have to agree with what I say, but accusing me of being a troll, or a bot, or manipulator, etc is out of line, unfair, and uncivil. Which is why you are having so many comments removed.
You can't vote for genocide and call yourself leftist, At best, you're a Reagan Republican.
Or you know, people should just vote for who they want to vote for because the candidate lines up with their values. Even if YOU don't like their candidate.
You know, kinda like how a democracy should work!
Here he fucking is again.... Dude, read the fuckdamn room, no one wants your decisive bullshit.
If we were to read the room, it reads like a fucking echo chamber. If Democrats want to earn votes, they need to start earning them. Otherwise we need to dilute the entire electoral process and maybe get some real progressive into office. For decades, we hear populist rhetoric around election time. And then they promptly drop the entire subject after the election. The DNC cannot be trusted, and they will betray us.
I admire your idealism. Harris is the most progressive candidate the DNC is even willing to front and I bet they are doing that with clenched teeth.
She's voted with Bernie more often than anyone else so let's see what she has to cook.
It's easy to sound progressive when you don't have the power or the ability to enact the things that you support. Much like when she ran, she supported a livable minimum wage. and then blamed its failure to pass on an unelected parliamentarian. She's claimed to have supported universal health care, or M4A. until she didn't in the middle of a pandemic.
When an unelected parliamentarian tried that during the Bush administration, the Senate fired that unelected parliamentarian. It's not their job to decide what congress has the ability to pass
So by that standard, isn’t your ideal independent pick even more so lacking the power to implement their ideals? Pretending it actually happens, they’d have literally zero party support in the house or senate, meaning they’d have infinitely less chance of enacting any of their promises.
Thank you!!
You are having several comments removed because you are being uncivil.
Stop being a bully, please. There are rules in this sub that you are breaking by speaking that way to me.
Then maybe you should block me or at least stop interacting with me if you are so frustrated by my posts?
Disagreeing with me because I have a different opinion than you is fine, but remember the civility rule for this sub, please. Thank you.
No, I track the more dangerous accounts on purpose. Don't get me wrong, I've blocked dozens of people but for you I get a notification. I don't want to miss a single minute of your show.
Being dangerous because they won't contribute to your echo chamber, fear of losing the table scraps that you currently receive from your politicians? The real danger lies in those that will not hold politicians accountable, the ones that blindly obey everything that they are told to do.
So you're stalking me. Ok, well let the Admins chime in. LIke I said in my other comments with you, I would love for them to chime in, and do it publicly in this thread!
