c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone is full of transphobic trolls
c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone is full of transphobic trolls
The community c/libertyhub@lemmy.blahaj.zone states in the sidebar it's a community for leftists and post leftists, but if you actually look at the posts the mods are making, it's almost nothing but trolling and telling people not to vote in the general election.
This rhetoric is especially dangerous to trans people, who this instance is supposed to be a safe space for, and West Bank Palestinians. If the USA elects a fascist president, there is guaranteed to be multiple genocides of society's most vulnerable groups, in addition to what the US is already doing in Gaza.
The mods on Liberty Hub openly troll their users and ban people for advocating left wing or harm reducing positions. The only action that is allowed on the sub is advocating political inaction in the face of genocide, taking a centrist position with regards to open fascism.
This community has absolutely no place on Blahaj Zone and should be removed by the admins.
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I'm not going to remove a community for pushing back against a system that forces them to vote for genocide.
I don't think that not voting is the answer, but I also don't think that me telling people they're not allowed to feel differently is the answer. The majority of the people in that community will be forced to live with the consequences of their votes. They will be directly targeted by Trump. And if they still feel that pushing back against genocide in Palestine is more important than the consequences of Trump on their very own personal safety, I'm not going to stand in the way of that.
This isn't outside trolls and agitators. This is a community of folk, directly in the line of fire, choosing to stand there for a cause they see as important. As long as their intentions are genuine (which I believe they are), It's not my place to tell them that they're not allowed to take that stand.
That being said, I am going to reach out to the staff there, and address the insults and the like being thrown at other users. It's against both the community rules, and against the Blahaj Zone Community Guidelines.
There's a difference between taking a stand that will harm themselves, and taking a stand that will harm everyone else as well while preventing others from taking a stand against them.
There is no harm free choice here.
Pledging to vote for someone despite the genocide means they have no incentive to stop the genocide. That is the more dangerous stance.
Ballots are secret. There is no way to prove how you voted once the ballot is sumbmitted. The optimal play is to make a lot of noise saying that your vote is contingent on an end to the genocide, even if that isn't how you actually vote on election day.
Pledging to vote for biden at this point is encouragement. Why would he do anything about palestine if he knows you're going to vote for him anyway?
You might be clever enough to walk that fine line, but the average voter is not. They hear "don't vote for Biden" and they believe you. Expecting to trick the president and not trick the millions of other people who need to vote against fascism for fascism not to happen, is impossible.
You're playing chicken with fascism. You're spreading fascist propaganda to voters while the DNC threatens the same and hoping the other one blinks first. But you and I have a lot more to lose from fascism than those rich white people do, and they're not going to blink. Your threats of fascism are going to come true.
They have no incentive either way. Either Biden wins and stays the course, or Trump wins and... well...
Pledging to vote for someone despite the genocide means they have no incentive to stop the genocide. That is the more dangerous stance.
Bullshit, it's the least dangerous stance!
- You can vote for Biden and have him fail to stop the genocide
- You can vote for Trump and have him enthusiastically support and egg on the genocide
- You can vote third-party and have Trump enthusiastically support and egg on the genocide
Those are your choices. Pretending that there's some choice other than voting for Biden that causes less harm is a DELUSIONAL LIE, end of!
Assume people make rational choices. When a president is elected, especially for a 2nd term, then they have little to no incentive to actually listen to the voters. It fucking sucks, but that is how the system works. Election time is literally the only time we can push meaningful change.
When election day comes, I think people we rationally understand that Trump is a greater danger both to Palastine and to the trans community and vote accordingly.
If I agree that there is no value in not voting, then I feel you should be able to recognize that there is value in SAYING you are not voting. To me, it's far more likely that the people in that community know this fact instead of somehow not recognizing the danger of Trump.
Assume people make rational choices.
Why? I don't think people have earned that much faith. People elected Trump in 2016 and I think they might well do it again.
People elected Trump in 2016 and I think they might well do it again.
And do you think those are the same people are on blahaj? That support palastine enough to protest? Do you really think its more likely those people will just stand by and let the situation get worse under Trump?
The ones who are more on the left are exactly the ones who are less inclined to vote, so yes.
The number of far leftist that didn't vote in some form of protest, is absolutely miniscule compared to the number of Republicans that did vote for Trump.
You're mad at the wrong group. These people are not any legitimate threat to Biden electability. I understand the fear, nihilism and anger at the possibility of another Trump term, I'm feeling all that too, but this topic just doesn't seem like a productive place to put energy. Between the electoral college and gerrymandering, where voting blue quite literally will do nothing. Like myself, I live in a deep blue state. I'm going to vote for Biden, but my girlfriend is not. In partiality, neither of these choices matter because we know for a fact the state is going blue just like it has for decades.
So a couple hundred people saying they won't vote, and a percentage of them actually will vote, shouldn't be something to be worked up about or a community that needs to be banned.
Idk. You do you. But this just seems like an unhealthy outlet for healthy frustration.
The open conservatives aren't the ones posting on Blahaj and telling trans people to vote for our own genocide. I'm never going to convince a Truth Social user that Trump is a lying rapist criminal traitor to his country. But it should be possible to remove those kinds of posts from an instance that is supposed to be trans friendly.
telling trans people to vote for our own genocide
an instance that is supposed to be trans friendly.
The instance IS trans friendly. The people in the community are protesting a seperate genocide with the few tools available to them. It's not fair to look past republicans taking active action to yell at others inaction solely because you feel the later should be easy.
For example, I'm vegan. I feel it should be easier for me to convince trans folk to be vegan since our community is all about bodily autonomy. But it's unsupringly not, and yelling at them for my perceived hypocrisy is far far less productive than talking to someone who hasn't been exposed to the concept in a rational logical way.
Perceiving hypocrisy in others and wishing it was easier to convince other to see as you is common, but it doesn't change minds. The convincing process is always slow and difficult. Is your time best spent on someone likely to come around to your view anyways? Or is it better spent exposing a naive republican in a media bubble that we are not the stereotype he has been led to believe? Trans genocide is happening, but think strategically, focus on convincing the victimizers, not the victims.
I understand your frustration and anger, and I'm trying to help you find peace with the fact that others will always disagree with you. But that disagreement does not become a justification to silence others in our own community.
I fail to see how that community is pushing back against any system by repeating the same tired talking points that dissuade people from voting.
And that's s perfectly reasonable perspective. But it's not a reason to moderate or ban the community...
Quickly going through the modlog of that community I've found these three comments that were removed for no other reason than they didn't align with what some mod thinks, along with a lot of people who were banned with the reason "liberal".
I don't even agree with these comments, but that doesn't matter. You're willing to host that community to give them a voice, while the mods stifle dissent and ban anyone who disagrees.
I am not willing to exclude trans and queer folk over a difference of opinion, when those opinions are genuinely held, and on issues that directly impact them.
I am not going to tell queer folk that there is a right or a wrong way to deal with the rising tide of bigotry, racism and intolerance we are all facing.
As long as the their community rules live up to the instance community guidelines, they're allowed to moderate on their own terms.
I get that you see me as "giving them a voice", and I guess, ultimately it is. But that's because the goal of blahaj zone is to create a space for trans and queer voices. And that's what those voices are.
Is there any procedure for when a community enforces different rules from the rules in their sidebar? And when the rules in the sidebar live up to the instance terms, but the real rules do not?
As long as they're not ignoring the instance guidelines, I'm not going to get involved in issues regarding moderation of individual communities. If people are unhappy with the mods, they will just go elsewhere. I'm not in the business of telling moderators how to run communities they're more connected to than I am.
If the community or its mods are ignoring the instance community guidelines though, then I want to know about it, because that will get dealt with.
I worry this leaves the door wide open for troll communities to operate with near impunity as long as they all lie consistently enough about their intentions
So pardon me, but it seems like you are saying I could spread actual Nazi ideology as long as I claimed to be trans?
Did you read the instance guidelines? Because that’s pretty clearly incompatible.
Ok but that is essentially what's happening.
Thinking Joe Biden sucks because he’s enabling genocide against Palestinians is a stance held by approximately zero Nazis. It’s a stance held by a lot of queer people.
If you have to chain together a bunch bad faith assumptions to call someone a Nazi, it’s time to cool it. Every queer person isn’t going to have your exact politics, it doesn’t mean they’re a fucking Nazi or faking being queer online. Figure out a way to be okay with that, because the alternative is that you’re going around accusing every queer person whose politics you dislike of being a Nazi.
I'm sorry but this attitude is exactly how every left leaning space on the internet inevitably gets infiltrated by trolls. If you can't manage to qualify opinions which are aligned with fascist opposition, and you even ban people for such qualification, then you are not an ally. Full stop.
Counterpoint - this is absolutely a community of outside agitators and it was very obvious from day 1.