3d ago

Orthodox Christianity: Young US men joining 'masculine' Russian churches

www.bbc.com

62 comments

There's a huge shift in male role models over the past few decades, and it always felt to me like the people who could never fit into the old militaristic, athletic "conqueror"-style mould saying "we'll invent our own definition of masculinity" than a direct, fully-bought-in progression.
This will leave people behind-- the ones who can't find new "appropriate" idols or aren't impressed by their achievements. The Linus Torvalds version of conquering the world is hardly the Genghis Khan version.
Maybe we need to find a way to broaden the modern pantheon to figures that can resonate with a traditional audience.
- The Linus Torvalds version of conquering the world is hardly the Genghis Khan version.
  An interesting point to make.
  Richard Stallman is definitely my biggest inspiration. I never considered it as a masculine or feminine thing, just an example of someone who is correct while most of his peers are wrong.
  The pen really is mightier than the sword, and it has been for awhile. That's why the ruling class doesn't want us to have any of our own ideas.
  Some of these guys didn't get the memo. They probably never had a good male role model to guide them on how to adapt to modern society.
- They don't want that though, they are turning to fucking news like Steven Miller and Andrew Tate. Because they 'look like them' and those guys are total assholes with perceived power.
  This is one are where progressives and liberals have completely failed. There are zero male role models in progressive/leftist politics that aren't women that are easily identifiable.
  And when you bring this up in those circles you get talked down to.
  I totally see why most average men want to be republicans. That party allows you to be a man (a toxic version of a man, but none the less a man).
  
  Why are you looking for male role models out politicians?
  
  You realize people want figureheads to look up to and follow, right?
  That's why trump is so fucking popular with morons. He talks to them, and tells them SOMETHING that they can get behind.
  
  The manliest thing to do is complain about how you're not allowed to be a man because the left doesn't have someone as manly as Steven Miller (??) for you to emulate.
  Manliness isn't a course or a team and you don't need other people to approve you being it. Have beliefs, stand up for people who are weaker than you, and build things to make the world a better place.
  Also, the largest leftist streamer (hasanabi) plays videogames, like anime boobs, and clearly works out constantly. Bill Burr is constantly going viral for telling assholes to shut the fuck up with a big cigar in his hand. And Tim Walz's whole political schtick is being a solid, caring, coach figure. There are plenty a representations of stereotypically "manly" figures on the left. The type that's not represented there is the toxic dudes complaining about how every problem in their life is the fault of women denying them their rightful place as the masters of society.
  
  No you mistake my point I'm saying that 'the left' doesn't have as many figurehead people online in those spaces to call out the people like Tate and Miller.
  
  These people aren't role models for being a man they're role models for insecure people who pretend like they're strong and dominant. There's a pretty big chasm between the two.
  
  Yes. And who is on the left saying 'hey you should act this fucking way instead of these douche canoes?'
  That's my point.
  
  I do get your point, but I don't think it's really applicable to the left as these people aren't actually acting like men and what they do emulate is part of their con designed to dupe people into thinking they're strong in order to get votes and get elected, but these traits aren't appealing to people who aren't primed to be MAGA sycophants because we can see right through the act and know that they're mentally weak and full of shit.
  This is specifically why they targeted isolated, angry young men who don't know any better with all their online propaganda convincing them it's the fault of women, immigrants, LGBT, etc for the shitty life circumstances they find themselves in. What specifically do you think the left (or more accurately center-right Democrats) can do to appeal to these people who don't want to improve themselves and would rather blame others for their own failings?
  
  Honestly, I've had this conversation with a lot of people!
  I think tough love is the answer. People respect an actual honest gut punch.
  Tough love with motivation to be better. That's what I would do. People want to look for something, to hope for something. They want to be part of a 'thing' that gives them meaning and a reason to get out of bed in the morning. For a lot of people that is what MAGA is. It's a brilliant bit of propaganda from a political science perspective.
  The thing that the people behind maga forget is that positive always beats negative for people. If the democrats came out with a 'elbows up' campaign to drive engagement, inform voters, and have an Obama 08 style organization behind it. Dems would sweep elections left right and center across the country.
  The issue, is the democrats shunned technology after that 08 Obama win. Obama built up a massive online apparatus to win the election then the party tossed it aside. The republicans embraced the digital age and have moved their propaganda networks online, and the democrats did nothing to counter it.
  There are some things that give the Rs and advantage such as gish gallop and stuff like that, but again, tough love 'everything that man said is bullshit, your honor' type discourse wins out. They just don't want to get their hands dirty, and they don't want to fund people that do for some reason.
  In short, you don't need to convince people to follow a billion different decrees. You give them a simple branding (Hope from 08. Where do you think all the MAGA merch idea came from? Those Hope shirts), direction, and figureheads.
  Branding is easy, for me I'd pick something like Together. Direction? Focus on things people agree on and build out policy from those tentpoles. 'Family? We all love family. Here's how we're helping YOUR family with X policies.' Figureheads. Dems have TONS of super qualified women that are killing it. We need some fucking white bread dudes like Walz as well to be pushing these things (there are a few they just need more media around them).
  From a dev standpoint, if it were me I'd create an app to push these things, make it social for people, and then gamify engagement by making it a 'game' to be informed of what's happening in your area and in the country at large. Getting people informed is not hard and doesn't take a lot of time, it requires newer styles of outreach that haven't been done before. At least in my mind!
  Thanks for the conversation on this btw, It's refreshing! <3

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