Stack overflow is almost dead
Stack overflow is almost dead
blog.pragmaticengineer.com
Stack overflow is almost dead
Four months ago, we asked Are LLMs making Stack Overflow irrelevant? Data at the time suggested that the answer is likely "yes:"
143 comments
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Ever ask a question on SO? I tell my students to search there but never, ever ask a question. The unmitigated hostility is not what new developers need or deserve. ChatGPT won't humiliate you for asking a question that someone else has already asked.
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That's why I only post questions for bleeding-edge languages and code libraries. I have to answer them myself.
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ChatGPT won't humiliate you for asking a question that someone else has already asked.
I don't know, being told what a good question that was and what a good boy I am everytime I ask a stupid question feels pretty humiliating.
(Still better than SO)
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That's a pretty recent development, isn't it? I remember ChatGPT being a lot more matter of factly earlier on.
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I forget where I heard the quote, but:
Stack Overflow is a great place to find answers. Stack Overflow is a terrible place to ask questions.
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Their moderation approach is a big part of why it's a great place to search for answers.
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But if it results in edge issues that're similar to another problem but not to the point of having the same solution being closed for being a duplicate, is it really helpful to the overall quality of the answers on Stack Overflow?
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If LLMs just copied stack overflow they'd respond to every question with "Closed as duplicate. Question already answered."
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and link a slightly similar question, which's answers can't be used in your case, because of the small difference. also, it's outdated since four years.
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or 13 in case of python questions, and they are about python2
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Problem being that someone else asked the question 10 years ago and the answer is now irrelevant due to version changes. People with high scores are just early adopters who answered all of the easy questions. Hostile users generally can't understand the question. The issue with llms answering your question is that they are going to be stuck in the current time period. In the future their answers will also be irrelevant due to version changes.
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Earlier today I googled how to toggle full screen in dosbox-x and the AI-generated answer said to use alt+enter. Tried it and it didn't work, so I look in the documentation and it turns out that they changed it to F12+f a while ago (probably to avoid interfering with actual dos input).
This is definitely already a problem.
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Every LLM is shit at dealing with version changes. They don't understand it as a concept, despite all their training data.
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I mean that is already a problem, if you ask a question you have to be ready for the answer to be a mismatch of version conflicts.
But that is ok. ChatGPT is a tool that can either help you or hurt you. I like to think of it like a power hammer. If you are doing a roofing job, it can help you get things done faster compared to a manual hammer, but you still need to know how to build a roof to get started.
ChatGPT is great at helping you organize your thoughts or finding an answer to some error message buried in some log file, but you still need to know what questions to ask and you need to be ready for it to give you a stupid answer and how to get around that.
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I've never had an issue asking a question on stack overflow.
I'd wager a lot of 'you people' that have issues with it probably didn't do enough research on your own.
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There’s issues on both sides. A lot of people who ask questions are clearly just asking others to do their homework or otherwise haven’t made any effort, but there are also a lot of people who are unnecessarily hostile.
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I definitely agree with this. I think the easier and kinder thing to do is to just not reply to posts like that.
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I see this hot take often, and it isn’t entirely without merit, but it is mitigated by moderation; in some Stack communities better than others. I’ve been an active member for many years, and in my view it goes like this.
If you contribute a question without reading the rules and How to Ask a Good Question, you don’t provide minimal reproducible steps with code, post images of code, etc. you may get flamed out of town. And that may feel bad and it may be mean if the questioner didn’t know to read those. But they are there for you.
If, however, you ask a thoughtful question, give examples, show what you’ve tried, etc. you definitely can get quality, courteous help.
Doesn’t change that video killed the radio star here. The show is over.
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Beginners are the least likely to ask thoughtful questions. We include slides in lectures about how to ask a question, but when there's an assignment deadline and you're inexperienced, it's more likely you're going to just blurt out "help me!" rather than provide a detailed explanation that doesn't require repeated prompting. It takes time to learn how to work through an issue yourself before asking. Students are often facing time pressure and that can drive bad behavior. Correcting them is important, just don't do it in a way that crushes their spirit.
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100% understood and agreed. I don’t want to defend the bad behavior. It is out there among questioners and in the experienced community alike. Just saying it is possible to find quality help there.
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For me, strict rules are what make this website useful. No threads named "help me" is why I like reading it.
For newcomers there is https://stackoverflow.com/staging-ground
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Even for non newcomers, having threads marked as duplicates for problems introduced by version changes that aren't considered in the original question/answers is a major issue.
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Said the same thing
is giving marked-as-duplicate vibes
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I've asked questions on S.O. I've answered some too.
What I've found works well on s-o is
- Researching a bit first
- Asking a question properly*
- Including that search attempt to prove you've done some due-diligence
I've found even a dick like me can get a lot of leeway by showing I've put in the effort and asked properly.
*Same as Usenet
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143 comments