I am shocked, I say. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
I am shocked, I say. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.
169 comments
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Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
I swear, the left usually calls itself open-minded, but as soon as someone on the right comes around, instead of trying to convince them with arguments, they are being called straight up evil russian bots. So what do they do, they go back to truth social, where they are well treated, and keep voting conservative.
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Lemmy being black or white like always. You can be a leftist, vote for the left and still recognize the flaws in your own parties and the good ideologies in the other…
That's very different from asserting that both sides are the same.
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Someone: "both parties share this specific commonality"
PugJesus: "oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??"Don't you dare suggest that my party has a common flaw with the other party and can be responsible for their own losses, you fascist.
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Someone: “both parties share this specific commonality”
PugJesus: “oh rly?? Both sides are LITERALLY the same??”
Bruh, there are no end of people I can quote on here saying that both parties are exactly the same, that there's no meaningful difference between them, that Trump is just business as usual, and that bourgeois democracy has been on an unceasing march becoming ever-more fascist since its inception.
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Only someone with an agenda would take 'exactly the same' to mean 'identical' in this context. I don't even care if you could source someone using the word 'exactly', which I would guess is far less common than you're suggesting.
I think it's malicious that you use 'centrist' in this way, because anyone pointing to similarities between the parties would likely be the furthest thing from 'centrist' on any commonly use political scale (as flawed as those are)
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Only someone with an agenda would take ‘exactly the same’ to mean ‘identical’ in this context.
Jesus fucking Christ.
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I'm not kidding. I don't think you could explain the thing you're taking issue with without projecting your ethical framework onto it.
We can have a conversation about effective/acceptable methods of activism without all this bullshit posturing. Just say the thing you mean and leave the agitprop to the activists.
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I’m not kidding. I don’t think you could explain the thing you’re taking issue with
"I take issue with the presentation of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable, and choosing neutrality is siding with the oppressor"?
without projecting your ethical framework onto it.
What the ever-loving fuck would be describing a political issue without projecting an ethical framework onto it?
We can have a conversation about effective/acceptable methods of activism without all this bullshit posturing. Just say the thing you mean and leave the agitprop to the activists.
"'Bothsides' attitude is bullshit and, ultimately, right-wing bullshit"?
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“I take issue with the presentation of all major sides of an issue to be indistinguishable because they are both flawed, with the *implicit or explicit exhortation to support neither, when there are obvious and important differences between the two with one being unambiguously preferable, and choosing neutrality is siding with the oppressor”?
Criticism of your party doesn't 'implicitly exhort' support for neither, dipshit. It's exactly this inference that's the problem with your categorization scheme. Democracy can't work when any and all dissent is filed under the same category as 'openly fascist'.
Both parties sharing a huge, glaring problem is a pretty valid reason to engage in dissenting speech.
What the ever-loving fuck would be describing a political issue without projecting an ethical framework onto it?
That's the fucking point. Having the disagreement is politics, but framing that disagreement as 'opposition' is willfully malicious and you know it.
“‘Bothsides’ attitude is bullshit and, ultimately, right-wing bullshit”?
Nah, man. I know full well you've read MLK, don't be the patronizing white-moderate. Both sides are shit, we should be arguing for changing that not just signing blank checks for the less objectionable one.
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Criticism of your party doesn’t ‘implicitly exhort’ support for neither, dipshit.
I never said it did?
Both parties sharing a huge, glaring problem is a pretty valid reason to engage in dissenting speech.
... okay?
That’s the fucking point. Having the disagreement is politics, but framing that disagreement as ‘opposition’ is willfully malicious and you know it.
Man, I'm not fucking talking about "Anyone who disagrees with the Dems".
Nah, man. I know full well you’ve read MLK, don’t be the patronizing white-moderate. Both sides are shit, we should be arguing for changing that not just signing blank checks for the less objectionable one.
I don't disagree? At the same time, when it comes down to the metal, if those are your only two choices, you have to be prepared to bite the bullet and take a side, not say "Both sides are the same!", which is what is being criticized here (in the meme, of self-proclaimed centrists, though, given Lemmy's makeup, the comments have predictably veered towards self-proclaimed leftists doing the same). When Nazi Germany comes a-knockin', you side with the US, or the UK, or the USSR, regardless of what valid criticisms you have for each. Because there is a bigger enemy afoot, and there's not an alternative option that doesn't result in vast amounts of people living under fascism.
I've told people since the end of the election, if you want to start a third-party movement, now is exactly the time. Or if you want to do a revolution, now is the time to lay groundwork. Now is the time to decouple from the Dems, if you're going to do it.
I'm not exactly a Dem partisan. I just recognized that in 2024, our realistic options were fascism or the Dems, shitty as they were, and of the two, there's no real contest in which should have been preferable. I'm still pissed that my life is on the fucking line, not to mention the lives of millions of others, because a third of the country decided fascism was an okay alternative, since 'both sides' were the same. And I'm pissed that I saw that sentiment here regularly, on Lemmy, from the mouths of supposed leftists.
I'm used to hearing it from "centrists", like in the meme. But if there's one thing that Lemmy has taught me, it's that while leftists might be less repugnant than the general population, we're not actually any smarter. Just as gullible, just as senseless, just as willing to engage in feel-good politics over reality.
Guess I knew that on an intellectual level, but hadn't accepted it emotionally before I moved here.
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I don’t disagree? At the same time
Just stop.
Now is the time to decouple from the Dems, if you’re going to do it
Right, so why are we playing semantic games with categorizations when now is the time to be pointing out why the democrats are unelectable (while on the topic, that is why they lost to trump). The body politic moved out from underneath them and they didn't react. It isn't because some stubborn group of progressives were making a fuss about a pet issue. I don't care if you wanna wring your hands that the republicans are a greater evil than the dems, i care that centrists (like, actual moderates who run cover for democrats by claiming their the only "realistic" option, coughcough) keep turning their anger at the people pushing for the things they claim to support but never 'when it comes down to the metal'.
But if there’s one thing that Lemmy has taught me, it’s that while leftists might be less repugnant than the general population, we’re not actually any smarter.
Is leftist some fun outfit you put on sometimes when the weather suits you? You've been using this account for long enough I think most of us have you pegged as a warhawk liberal, not any kind of 'leftist' - none I would ever care to work with, at least.
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Both sides are similar in behavior, not in ideology. Right winger’s are treated just as bad here as leftists are treated on truth social. Both sides are somehow convinced their idea is the absolute truth and the other side is the devil itself.
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the meme is explicitly not talking about those people
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Honestly I’m talking more about the people in the comments than the meme itself.
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The people in the comments are also not 🤔
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Mr Jenkins!?
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Nothing in the meme that directly names political parties.
Are you someone who calls yourself a centrist but can't decide if kids should be shot in schools or Healthcare is a human right? Weird.
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No, I don’t think kids should be shot, and healthcare should be a thing. But here anyway, the current healthcare system is broken, and some of the conservative ideas are trying to fix it, while the left is fine leaving it half working. While I’m still a leftist, I do recognize their point and am not calling them evil for it…
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some of the conservative ideas are trying to fix it,
No, they literally are not. You are making things up.
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And so, instead of asking yourself questions, you straight up jump to the conclusion you want to hear. This is what I'm criticizing here, and you're far from the only one acting that way.
Here's a translated part of the local conservative party's website:
Now I am by no means saying this is the best way to do it, or that they are actively working on it, but to say they aren't trying to fix it is just a lie. You didn't even bother researching it, you immediately assumed the answer you wanted to hear was the correct one.
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Sure, buddy, we know you don't believe everyone is entitled to Healthcare.
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?? Why would I believe that, and why would I even lie about that?
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169 comments