You started this by blaming vegans for reducing interest in animal rights, surely a projection of how you feel onto society.
Nope, that's literally just what has happened.
Consider the fucking argument, consider how widely unpopular you are.
Veganism will never be the global majority, you're delusional to think you're supporting animal rights if you are so vehemently against enforcing better conditions in captivity. Vegans drew the line: "Animal rights activists shouldn't want animal rights in captivity." That's why we are where we are today, that's why factory farms have gotten worse and worse.
...your excuse for not learning more about veganism or trying it...
Consider the fucking argument, consider how widely unpopular you are. Veganism will never be the global majority, you're delusional to think you're supporting animal rights if you are so vehemently against enforcing better conditions in captivity.
Keep it civil.
Also you can’t see into the future so you cannot claim such things.
Why do factory farms use outdated slaughter techniques in the first place? Production quantity comes first. They will not reduce their capacity to produce meat just to make the animals lives better.
Where's the evidence that your idea is any better than mine anyways?
I can't predict the future if thats what you mean.
Theres plenty of evidence that reducing meat production where possible will help everyone. Theres plenty of evidence that at least a mostly plant based diet is better for personal health for most people.
Less animals suffering is a plus too but you could leave it out and still come to the conclusion that there is something behind plant based and partially plant based diets.
Less animals suffering is a plus too but you could leave it out and still come to the conclusion that there is something behind plant based and partially plant based diets.
this is a nonsequitur. my guess is you have tried plant based diet, and the amount of animal slaughter has only increased:
chart
I never claimed that me being a vegan would end animal suffering.
If you would admit that the line on your graph would go up quicker if all vegetarians and vegans went back to eating meat, then you have to also admit it would go up slower if more people went vegan, vegetarian, or simply ate 25% less meat than they normally do.
You must be able to see the math there? Do I need to send you university debate level arguments? I can find them for you if you want.
what you're presenting is a classic post hoc ergo propter hoc. both of those declined in production following the introduction of color television as well. we can't very well say that color caused a reduced production. in fact, you haven't actually presented any evidence that less asbethos or cigarettes are being produced.
i think supply creates its own demand, but i don't believe there is any causal mechanism by which choosing to buy something causes more of it to be produced, nor that production causes others to purchase it.
You can literally enforce better conditions in farms, making factory farming practices illegal, and it's possible we could've had the support required to make it happen.
If you amend your messaging and behavior even a little bit, it might still be possible.
How would we do that without dramatically reducing the amount of meat being produced?
As for the support, it sounds like you are blaming vegans for factory farmers actions. If they want to do things more humanely they are free to do it.
Its a waste of time in my opinion, and its hypocritical to be an animal activist who eats animals.
We can have a conversation about the ethical slaughterhouse in your mind but I guarantee you we will not agree on what is ethical treatment of an animal if thats the case.
Well, your graph could just as easily support my position as it could go against it.
I see a line that could be higher if not for the personal choice of a collective of vegans, vegetarians, and generally healthier people.
You see proof vegans aren't making a difference. Where's your proof that the line is unaffected by vegans? Do you have anything else that proves being vegan is an effort in futility?
Do you have anything else that proves being vegan is an effort in futility?
i've never said that. i think if you want to avoid animal products, then doing so is its own reward. but if you want to decrease animal slaughter, it's ineffective.
i suggest that you go where animals are being slaughtered and stop it.
...it sounds like you are blaming vegans for factory farmers actions.
You're refusing to get this point right: I'm blaming vegans for public disinterest, which indirectly allows the factories to completely maximize profits by squeezing the animals they use.
Its a waste of time in my opinion...
I know you think that. You're vegan.
You don't care about the pig in the pen any more than you care about the prey in the field. What bothers you is that there are carnivores on your block. A cow could be tortured and slaughtered at 5, or live comfortably in a large field and die of natural causes, it makes no difference to you. You're bothered by the steak on the plate. That's your fight.
First of all, plenty of vegans are activists, doing the stuff you are talking about. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The problem is people wanting to be animal rights activists but giving no moral consideration to animals and doing absurdly hypocritical things like contributing to the system they stand in opposition of.
Apparently you just want to be able to eat guilt free meat? Seems to be what you accomplish with your "framework" of being anti vegan, anti factory farm, but pro eating meat.