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Better approach: Data.
When ignoring the period of 1941-1944 (nazi occupation of the soviet union and ww2) where 70% of all deaths in gulags occurred, the program actually had an incredibly low death rate for its time. In fact, by 1953 the gulag system had a LOWER death rate than current modern day US prisons have. Fact.
According to this study the gulag deaths were approximately 830,000 from 1934 to 1953. As I said above however, it is important to know that 70% of all these deaths occurred between 1941 and 1944 (included) so they can be attributed to difficulties from the War Period and nazi occupation. Also, it's important to note that antibiotics didn't become available until after WW2, this contributes significantly to earlier higher death figures.
To put things into perspective. Using the same source as above for the USSR, and this report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics we can say that Mortality in the gulag in 1953 (236 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) was lower than mortality in US prisons today, both in state prisons (303 deaths per 100,000 prisoners) and federal prisons (252 deaths per 100,000 prisoners).
Feel free to double check these numbers(you should check anyone's numbers always). I know it's surprising to hear that as far back as 1953 they were better, but it is absolutely correct. I had to double check it too.
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ok but it would still suck shit to be sent to a gulag even if there was a low chance i would die.
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Absolutely. Prisons suck. I just think people should know the data because that "the USSR gulags were better in 1953 than current modern prisons are" point is an absolutely mindblowing and objectively powerful point.
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I think the reason people think gulags are worse is because they don't trust the USSR to have been fair in terms of who they sent to gulags though where at least the people in america get a "fair" trial.
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Yeah I don't have a response to that. People with brainworms to argue anyone in the US is fairly sent to prison when they hold 24% of the global prison population is not going to be a person that you can convince. They aren't being critical and they aren't discussing the topic in good faith.
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this is why people like losurdo are so important. in order to argue in favor of communism and against all the propaganda, we must first demonstrate to people how liberal "democracies" are trash. thankfully, more and more people are waking up to that as material conditions go to shit, but the process really needs some guidance
sadly some dumbasses will say you're doing whataboutism or something, but if they can't realize how relevant the comparison is, that's on them
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the max sentence was 5 years??
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thats wild
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31 comments