Remote View

3mo ago

What is to be done? (and other pertinent updates)

STOP THE COUNT :trump-anguish:

A twelve-hour window has passed and a supermajority is present—158 out of 228 first-choice ballots—therefore, we will proceed with a backup of Option 2: The Long March (keep Hexbear branding, change domain) if we cannot secure the hexbear.net domain.

As such, a ranked-choice poll with the Hexbear-related domains we have secured will be forthcoming. Stay tuned for that as well as other updates we may have!

Hey all, semi-ambiguous member of the admin team here. Who am I? Classified. Think of me as one of the SEELE monoliths, if it helps. All you really need to know here is I've been here for a good while, at least, and have enough knowledge of the staff internal dynamics as well as the technical side of the issues we face to represent the situation in its breadth.

What have we been doing since the unfathomable oopsie?

We have secured a number of alternative domains. We will not fully enumerate them until we are more confident on the direction we want to take our approach to this.

We have established contact with the previously-AWOL owner, and after much discussion, we have determined that while there was an error in the auto-payment initially, the renewal funds were transferred manually to Sav and the auction continues despite that. We are currently appealing to Sav support with our domain credentials. We are also looking into whether an ICANN-compliant grace period was implemented prior to the rescinding and auctioning of the domain.

We aren't going to give up on this route entirely and have taken a distributed approach to addressing our options internally (e.g. some admins are negotiating with Sav, some admins are covering bases, some admins and devs are planning the technical side of things, etc., etc.). The best case scenario is that with our access credentials, our negotiations make Sav cease the auction and cede the domain back to us. If this unfolds, this is the option we will take. We will not rely on this route, but it is pertinent to mention it as a possibility.

We also plan to compile a more comprehensive post-mortem that will give a detailed overview/recap of the situation that will be made once we plant our feet on the ground.

Okay, so, anyways, what paths do we have?

We have charted three separate paths for how we are to operate in the short-term, with the assumption that our current path will be fruitless. As is tradition, we will put our priorities up to a Dean Norris emoji vote. However, due to the ambiguity and sensitivity of this issue, this will be a ranked choice ballot, and we will weigh your Deans in a descending manner within your comment accordingly.

1. New Economic Policy :dean-frown:

Overview

With this plan, we fundraise to buy back the domain from the auction.

Pros

Basically all the pros that come with getting the domain back. These include:

Truly prevents all potential security risks that come with the domain turnover (e.g. MitM, phishing, shock-redirects, etc.)
No reintegration into federation necessary
No migration work necessary (business as usual)

Cons

Would have to be a community effort
Auction already at 2000$+
Would be in competition with chuds and crypto-bros for the bidding
Can’t snipe it, a bid extends the auction

Notes

In my own personal opinion, raising funds for this is the most cringe option. We would rather you be putting the money towards helping out some of our comrades on /c/mutual_aid or doing mutual aid in your own localities instead of forking it over to a registry parker for a bajillion dollars

2. The Long March :dean-smile:

Overview

Migrate to a Hexbear-branded alternative domain (possibilities secured to be listed post-vote)

Pros

No site overhaul required (iconography, agitation, etc., etc.)
Least-resistance path comparatively, we would be able to get operations secured much quicker than the other two, despite the bumps

Cons

Most vulnerable to schemes regarding the old URL and whoever gets it

Notes

I prefer this personally. I think anyone who is going to get swindled by the takeover of the .net site is already going to be fucked regardless if we rebrand or not. Anyone who doesn’t know the site alternative is affected by the lapse in the site already, so I’d argue the difference made by the rebrand is a bit moot? Anyone who can see the site at the moment can see the posts where we say we’ve changed domains and delete their browser history and cookies accordingly.

3. Cultural Revolution :dean-neutral:

Overview

Declare hexagons and bears to be bourgeois decadence. Choose a new domain without Hexbear-branding.

Pros

Disambiguates us from the previous domain, which is up for grabs and leaves us at risk.
If one dislikes the Hexbear branding, now is the time to change it

Cons

Longest process. Would require a lot more internal debate due to the scope of options.
Site overhaul required, the scope of which will also have to be debated.
We can’t exactly be sure that the options anyone here specifically wants are within our grasp unless they stake it out themselves, purchase it, as well as maintain and donate it to us until we either rule it out or go with it. We want to be responsible spenders with the coffers, and can’t in good faith debate the merits of domains/brandings that could be sniped or buy domains that we’re unsure of, en masse.

Notes

No notes other than emphasizing that the rebrand will be a lengthy debate and will take considerably more time than the other options.

Okay, so what do I have to do?

On this forum, you just have to :vote: Otherwise, inform other wayward users about the current backup domain of chapo.chat and to watch out for hexbear.net until further notice.

To recap the options:

:dean-frown: Fundraise to get back the old domain
:dean-smile: Keep site branding, change domain
:dean-neutral: Change site branding and domain

Your ranked-choice Deans will be tallied and weighed within a 12, up-to 24-hour window (approximately) and we will prioritize accordingly. Even so, as always, if you’re in line, stay in line. I’m still in line to vote for Michael Dukakis myself. There’s always a chance!

389 comments

:dean-smile:
We are also looking into whether an ICANN-compliant grace period was implemented prior to the rescinding and auctioning of the domain.
It was. I checked the historical WHOIS records and the problem occurred 30 days after the domain was set for renewal (in January).
Most likely the owner received an email from the domain registrar on the day it fell over into the grace period or shortly before, something they likely ignored and which the domain registrar would point to as evidence of a "your problem not ours, we acted in good faith above and beyond requirements" situation. If someone here had noticed during that period and reached out (interesting how quickly after this happened admins were able to reach the person and truly unfortunate therefore this wasn't noticed a week ago) then the owner of the domain could indeed have prevented this by fixing payment details.
there was an error in the auto-payment initially, the renewal funds were transferred manually to Sav and the auction continues despite that.
Unless you can prove it was on their side and not a problem with the other party (you) and that such funds AND any other actions required by the registrar for domains in grace period (they have a right to demand someone login to a console, agree to terms, blah, blah, blah not JUST wire them cash) were completed BEFORE the end of the grace period you really have no legs to stand on. And even if you can prove it was their problem they probably have contracts that cover their ass though threats are always worth a try I suppose as is pleading. (And sending funds is not evidence of any contract, agreement, or rights conferred).
Edit: I have noticed that the domain is now redirecting here. Either the people at the registrar were good enough to set that up after some pleading while the auction proceeds or perhaps for some reason your registrar is actually really good and is going above and beyond for you for some reason and stopping the auction.
- As far as I am able to say anything at the moment, there is an ICANN policy that we legitimately believe has been violated with regards to how the RGP was implemented. We don't dispute that according to the timeline, we would be at a point in time past the RGP–it is a matter of how RGP works.
  
  I see. Worth trying to use it against them I suppose given little else but it still seems an uphill battle. Best of luck.
- This is a bit conspiracy brained but I wonder if there wasn't even a problem with autorenewal
  You agree that we may, but are not obligated to, allow you to renew your domain name after its registration term has ended and its expiration date has passed, provided that you have timely paid all required renewal fees.
  Sav expressly reserves the right to deny, cancel, terminate, suspend, lock, or modify access to (or control of) any User Account or Services (including the right to cancel or transfer any domain name registration) for any reason (as determined by Sav in its sole and absolute discretion), including but not limited to the following: [...] (ix) to respond to an excessive amount of complaints related in any way to your User Account, domain name(s), or content on your website that could result in damage to Sav’s business, operations, reputation or shareholders.
  
  Also reading some of the ICANN stuff, and it does look like hexbear has a case if I interpret correctly!
  
  Sounds like typical unenforceable bullshit from a company whose business model is screwing people over
- Why do you post a wall of confident speculation without even reading the ICANN policies?
  2.2.3. For registrations deleted eight or more days after expiration: For at least the last eight consecutive days (after expiration) that the registration is renewable by the RAE, the existing DNS resolution path specified by the RAE must be interrupted by the registrar to the extent that the applicable registry permits such interruptions.
  2.2.4. In interrupting the DNS resolution path of the registration, if the registrar directs web traffic to the domain name to a web page while the registration is still renewable by the RAE, that web page must conspicuously indicate that the domain name registration is expired and provide renewal instructions.
  2.2.5. Beginning at the time of expiration and through the DNS resolution interruption period described in paragraphs 2.2.2 and 2.2.3, the RAE must be permitted by the registrar to renew the expired registration.
  3.2. During the Redemption Grace Period, the registry must disable DNS resolution and prohibit attempted transfers of the registration. ICANN-approved bulk transfers and permitted partial bulk transfers are not subject to the prohibition of attempted transfers. The registry must also clearly indicate in its Registration Data Directory Services (RDDS) result for the registration that it is in its Redemption Grace Period.
  There is potentially a good case against the registrar because they didn't stop DNS resolution during the grace period.
  
  Good info. Seems it’s designed precisely to prevent scummy situations where the host does the absolute bare minimum in hopes that the RGP lapses. If DNS resolution halted for a month, that would be impossible to ignore exactly in this situation in which the contact method fails.
  
  The parts of the policy you quoted are the procedures for deleting a registration.
  Unfortunately this will only apply if the registrar fails to auction it off. Then the RAE will have 30 days to renew again.
  It looks like after expiration, the registrar renewed their registration so they could auction it off. 30 days after expiration, the RAE's grace period ended and the auction started (and the domain stopped pointing to this site).
  IIRC, the registrar can cancel the renewal up to 45 days after expiration and get a refund. So after the RAE's grace period, they are left with 15 days to try to sell it to someone else. If they can't, then these deletion procedures come into play.
  If the registrar sends a deletion request, then they must disable DNS resolution and the RAE has 30 days to renew. But I don't think they have sent the deletion request yet, and it like they renewed for another year.
  Clearer explanation: https://icannwiki.org/Expired_Registration_Recovery_Policy
  
  I don't think Sav can claim that the grace period had lapsed, because they were required to interrupt DNS resolution at the beginning of the grace period and they didn't.

389 comments